Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

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KevinSim
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

Marcus wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:35 am
i think we're being spoofed, guys. :D
Not at all, Marcus; I'm completely serious. God for me is someone who knows how to preserve forever some good things. I have no use for the literally omnipotent, literally omniscient literal creator of this world; all I’m talking about is a forever preserver. Without one, the human race is eventually going to die out. Which means that race will have a last generation. That last generation will be made up of real people, with hopes and dreams like you and I have, Marcus. What is your conscientious obligation to that last generation? I say our obligation to them is to work towards their non-existence, to make sure there is no last generation of humans. And that is why we need God.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

Chap wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:41 am
KevinSim wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:01 am
The simple fact is that humanity needs God.
Just for the benefit of people from outside Judaism, Christianity and Islam, the three letters "God" in KS's post refer to the deity imagined by those three religions - the so-called 'Abrahamic' religions, which in their current forms all agree on a single all-powerful all-knowing deity who created and sustains the universe and is the ground of the moral order.
No they don't. Those three letters don't refer to the deity of the Abrahamic religions. Not necessarily, anyway. They refer to whatever deity actually is in control of the universe.
In what sense do those people "need" your deity? What need of theirs would he/she/it/they satisfy?
The need to fill their conscientious obligation to the rest of the human race.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:46 am
It seems like you are using "God" to denote idealism. It's a very Machiavellian notion that you present.
Honorentheos, could you elaborate on this? In particular, I'm not sure what you mean by the idealism you say I'm denoting God with. I'm also not sure what the connection to Machiavelli is.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:58 pm
KevinSim wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:01 am
…The simple fact is that humanity needs God. If, as atheists assert, there is no deity in control of this universe, then it becomes those atheists' conscientious obligation to produce one. If atheists have thought things through and are yet not pessimists, then that means they must have found a way to produce such a deity, which would surprise me very much. So if you can explain to me how they have discovered how to produce God, I will admit that I am wrong and that my statement is insupportable.
KS,

Can you flesh out the highlighted bit, because it appears to be a de facto contradiction.

- Doc
Doc, God for me is the forever preserver. If there is no forever preserver, then the human race will not last forever. That means there will be a last generation of the human race. That generation will consist of real people, with hopes and dreams like you and me, Doc. What is your conscientious obligation to the real people of that last generation? I think it is to make sure that generation never happens, which means we need to find out how to forever preserve, which means we need God.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

malkie wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:38 am
Since you have no way of verifying any of your assumptions, I would suggest to you that you at least consider the possibility that you were talking to yourself; had a strange experience that was produced purely by your body and mind; either had no further such experiences, or had them but ignored/misinterpreted them.
Oh, i have considered that possibility very much over the four decades since the experience.
malkie wrote:Your story is more easily explained by the non-existence of your God than by his existence.
Absolutely. But I am motivated by way more than by finding the easiest explanation for the events around me. It's important to have a good understanding of what things actually have happened in this world; it's just as important to have a good understanding of what things should happen in this world. This world should have a deity in charge of it.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:44 pm
This morning I felt something I couldn't explain. I feel someone is about to show me the way, but I don't know what that means.
Doubtingthomas, that sounds very interesting. Keep me updated on what happens to you.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:51 pm
KevinSim wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:07 pm
If my wife cheats on me, I can divorce her and marry someone else
Do you want that to happen?
No!
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by KevinSim »

drumdude wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:41 am
I find that a bit odd to be skeptical of an objective reality while not being skeptical that the Mormon god exists.
Drumdude, I am skeptical that the Mormon god exists. I'm just not skeptical that God exists.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by Meadowchik »

Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:47 pm
Using one’s common sense always helps. Too many people would rather lay the blame on someone else.
If you're successfully indoctrinated from childhood into an ideology against a significant amount of common sense, what do you have as an adult?

In such a case, you've been taught to not trust yourself.

Once a person has been convinced to not trust themselves, they'll do all kinds of weird crap if the ideology says so.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

Post by Kishkumen »

This is why I think indoctrinating children into religion is objectively wrong. Before a certain age, children are incapable of distinguishing between religious facts/truths and non-religious facts/truths. And then obtaining the ability to distinguish them later is difficult.
Yeah, I don’t agree. Parent raise their children with their beliefs. Those beliefs will inevitably be wrong or only partially correct. It’s just life. Religion is such a part of human culture that it is impractical to demand that children not be exposed to it. My kids were raised with almost no religion and I kind of regret it. They have a huge gap in their cultural literacy.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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