Kishkumen wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:51 am
drumdude wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:34 am
Blaise Pascal had a beautiful experience.
Unfortunately it had nothing to do with Mormonism. It makes about as much sense for DCP to cite it in support of Mormonism as it would for a Scientologist to cite it in support of Scientology.
Daniel said he expects to be right about the “major things but not the details” when he dies. If there is a God, something common to all human religious experiences, that God will have nothing to do with some backwater 19th century con man’s inventions.
It does make some sense according to Mormon theology as re-affirmed by some modern LDS leaders. The idea is that all truth revealed, be it in one culture or another, comes ultimately from the inspiration of God. That is why DCP feels comfortable citing these disparate examples.
I find it odd, frankly, that you reserve special bile for Joseph Smith. That “backwater 19th century con man” did have some good ideas and espouse some noble sentiments. That phenomenon was sufficient to launch a religion with global reach. Rejecting that is one thing—just like rejecting any meaning-making system you don’t care for—but this is exactly the kind of unreasoned hatred that sparks Mopologetics. This is exactly what has guys like Midgley frothing at the mouth.
And it just looks overboard and goofy.
Yes, and like we have. both talked about (together), Joseph Smith very well did tap into some of the themes of the ancient mysteries, and not just some of the fringe views either... It is problematic when we see Smith taking such a literal historical view of it which I have most come out against, not Joseph Smith's ideas per se. I am reading in Algis Uzdavinys' research and find it overwhelmingly parallel to some of Smith's theology. I suspect I will find more when my book
Method Infinite arrives (hopefully today) dealing with Free Masonry and the endowment.
I will confess, sometimes Smith appears like such a complete dunderhead, and other times he is exalting my spirit to the highest celestial regions of desire. He is an enigma, which is what makes looking into him so dadgum fascinating! One major hurdle which I simply see no point in trying to get over is the modern Mormon interpretations of the Prophet. I simply see so much of their view as missing the mark concerning him.
This is why Dr. Peterson takes so much flack around here. He simply takes the all Modern Mormon view of Smith and mocks anyone else who comes out with differing conclusions/research/evidence than what he interprets in lock step with the church'a interpretation of Smith and the scriptures he imagines is true. And he knows it, and glories in it, weirdly enough. But I do believe at least both you and I have different takes on it and they are exactly as grand and exalting and exciting as anything Mormonism has interpreted. But then we get stomped on for even caring to simply discuss this. "NO! If it isn't interpreted correctly (as we Brethren teach) then it is wrong, the Holy Ghost will leave you to the wiles of Satan, and you shall apostatize." It is that spirit of thinking which I can no longer stomach. There is precious little actual friendly discussion and bantering and learning anymore, just read, believe, and follow the church approved materials, and we all know that means it continues to stay in the 5th grade level of spirituality, rather than advancing to collegiate level spirituality and exaltation.
I think what sent me over the edge out of apologetics is when they seemed to believe they simply have to confirm absolutely everything Joseph Smith said as a literal historical occurring event. That, to me, seems too extremely one sided, and lop sided. It is as worthless as going extreme the other direction of imagining that everything he taught, said, and believed was only to be considered as spiritual. Neither view actually works, and sure, when the are pushed Smith takes the brunt of the criticism. I have given him a fair share of that myself.
But I am moving more in a direction of exploring his overall spiritual views and the themes which appear to me to be all consuming for humans throughout the concourses of time. Joseph Smith does, to me at least, appear to have tapped into a source of thought (reality?) which has been known and believed by many other cultures throughout the millenia. It's what makes the mysteries so enjoyable to look into.