JohnW wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:47 am
I think this paragraph sums up what I worry about on my bad days. I think I may have argued against your point harder before 2016. Now, I can't agree with you more that we as humans convince ourselves of silly things. I just worry you may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If humans are demonstrably capable of believing silly things, that doesn't necessarily mean every belief that appears silly to us, must be false. It would just be suspect.
I suppose the analogy of throwing out the baby with the bath water works for me. I was an LDS believer for a long time. I decided to embrace rationality and in so doing I lost all room for faith. But, it definitely works better for me, it seems. So I'm happy to have done it, as hard as it was. Worth it, as they say.
Yes. I definitely know people who will believe anything and go from weird fad to weird fad without any rational grounding. Every personality strength can be a weakness, I guess.
Maybe what I'm trying to say is that some people seem to see things that I cannot see. This isn't new to me, because I'm not very socially adept. My wife and I can sit in a conversation with someone, and she understands the interaction on such a deeper level than me, even though we both received the same input information. When I was younger, it seemed like magic. Lots of other people could see these things called social cues that seemed like invisible communication. Of course, I have since gotten better at it, but it is still sometimes a struggle.
Yes, people convince themselves of craziness. That doesn't mean they are always tricking themselves or just making things up. Some very real things are extremely subtle . . . so subtle that they seem like magic to some of us. I've come to believe God and spirituality could easily live within those boundary conditions.
I suppose if I am the one convinced of untrue things I too would feel compelled to think my particular beliefs aren't among the crazy things people convince themselves of. No offense here, just thinking there's plenty of room to see it both ways. One could think some beliefs are ok, even if unverified sufficiently, and even if others aren't ok. It's possible, after all. I tend to think we ought to utilize our modern tools better than that.
Yeah, the problem of evil is a difficult one. Ten years ago, I thought I had this one completely solved, but that was one thing this community made me realize isn't as simple as I thought. I have lots of thoughts on this, but maybe I'll save it for later. I do think Latter-day Saint theology has just about the best starting point for any argument along these lines. Most members don't like it when I say this, but our God is somewhere between the Mainstream Christian version of God and the science fiction version of a race of super-advanced, benevolent alien overlords. In the first, the problem of evil is almost insurmountable; in the latter, it is almost not even a question. The reality, assuming the Latter-day Saint God exists, would be somewhere in the middle.
Anyway, thanks Dasterdly Stem. I enjoyed your thoughtful comments.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the problem of evil. I recall thinking the LDS position is best suited to address the Euthyphro dilemma. I'm not so sure any more.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos