Happy Sunday

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MG 2.0
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:44 am
You may not like his show, but it is absurd to claim that he is motivated principally by money. If you were to inaccurately claim he was motivated by Satan, or pure hatred for God’s work, that would probably be closer than this asinine, lazy insult.
I think that at one time what you say may have been the case to some extent. But now I think he sees the whole gig as a continued cash cow to bring home the bacon.

I’m not going to argue with you about it anymore. That would be a fool’s errand.

Talking of fools.

Regards,
MG
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Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Kishkumen »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:48 am
And that’s a cheap answer. Much cheaper than the lifestyle Dehlin is able to benefit from as a podcaster capitalizing on his ‘insider’s view’ of Mormonism.

Beats Microsoft, I guess.

Regards,
MG
I don’t know you, MG, and I would like to think that somewhere behind this aggressively moronic persona you’ve inflicted on this board there is a decent human being, but it is staggering to imagine how you could fail to recognize that John Dehlin would not have had to serve the needs of those who were emotionally devastated were it not for the fact that the LDS Church flatly failed and was confoundingly incompetent in its response to the faith crises of its members. Without that huge need, there would have been no John Dehlin, John Larsen, or Mormonism Live.

These things exist because the LDS Church has failed in its responsibilities to the wandering sheep. It would rather rake in billions for Jesus through Ensign Peak than commit its resources to clothing the poor or saving the souls of the people it gathered tithing from for decades and even generations. Oh the sad, sickening irony of the failure of the Church in this regard, and you blame John Dehlin. It’s grotesque in the extreme.

What are you accomplishing here, MG? All I see is a person who regularly convinces everyone else why they should prefer to stay away from the LDS Church. I have never encountered a more blinkered, fatuous, and mean-spirited persona in this or any forum.

I don’t think that’s really you. I think that is you twisting and writhing, grasping for anything to maintain your own faltering faith that your Church really doesn’t give a spit for past collecting tithing and donations.

And here you attack Dehlin. Disgusting.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
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Binger
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Binger »

Dehlin does not make that much money to merit this level of needling and disdain. There are lots of reasons to like the guy, and many reasons to not like him. There are lots of reasons to donate to the guy, and many reasons to not donate. There are lots of reasons to listen to or watch his widget shows, and many reasons to ignore them.

Dehlin is a guy with a channel. Shades is a guy with a channel. Daniel Peterson is a guy with a channel. And nobody but the folks tuned in to those channels gives a damn about anything those dudes or their henchmen and lieutenants have to say. It just so happens that some folks are only tuned in to those three channels, which is interesting. Viva Ukraine.
MG 2.0
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:04 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:48 am
And that’s a cheap answer. Much cheaper than the lifestyle Dehlin is able to benefit from as a podcaster capitalizing on his ‘insider’s view’ of Mormonism.

Beats Microsoft, I guess.

Regards,
MG
I don’t know you, MG, and I would like to think that somewhere behind this aggressively moronic persona you’ve inflicted on this board there is a decent human being, but it is staggering to imagine how you could fail to recognize that John Dehlin would not have had to serve the needs of those who were emotionally devastated were it not for the fact that the LDS Church flatly failed and was confoundingly incompetent in its response to the faith crises of its members. Without that huge need, there would have been no John Dehlin, John Larsen, or Mormonism Live.

These things exist because the LDS Church has failed in its responsibilities to the wandering sheep. It would rather rake in billions for Jesus through Ensign Peak than commit its resources to clothing the poor or saving the souls of the people it gathered tithing from for decades and even generations. Oh the sad, sickening irony of the failure of the Church in this regard, and you blame John Dehlin. It’s grotesque in the extreme.

What are you accomplishing here, MG? All I see is a person who regularly convinces everyone else why they should prefer to stay away from the LDS Church. I have never encountered a more blinkered, fatuous, and mean-spirited persona in this or any forum.

I don’t think that’s really you. I think that is you twisting and writhing, grasping for anything to maintain your own faltering faith that your Church really doesn’t give a spit for past collecting tithing and donations.

And here you attack Dehlin. Disgusting.
Last word is yours after this post. That probably felt good to get that out of your system, right? 😉

Yeah, I’m a pretty decent human being. Or at least I’m trying to be.

And I understand, really, why you don’t have a very high opinion of me. We are in a very different place as far as the church is concerned.

Friction is the result.

I don’t hate John Dehlin. I can’t say that I hate anyone. And I don’t doubt that he, RFM, and John Larsen have done ‘good’ in a relative sense. But I honestly don’t see them offering anything superior to the gospel of Jesus Christ. In a sense, they’re preaching their own gospel of no religion and/or of no God.

After all, at least to my understanding, that’s where most exmormons end up.

Best wishes.

Sorry I got you all riled up.

Regards,
MG
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Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Kishkumen »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:17 am
Last word is yours after this post. That probably felt good to get that out of your system, right? 😉
It can be cathartic to call a spade a spade. Your online persona is insipid and irritating in the extreme.
Yeah, I’m a pretty decent human being. Or at least I’m trying to be.
I am glad you try.
And I understand, really, why you don’t have a very high opinion of me. We are in a very different place as far as the church is concerned.

Friction is the result.
I don’t think that is the problem. I am in a different place than a lot of people regarding the LDS Church, and I get along with them just fine. They don’t come here to pee on all of us and tell us it’s raining. You look at John Dehlin, and your big observation, which is not so much an observation as a nasty little lazy swipe, is that he’s gotta be motivated by money.

At the very same time, your church is collecting money from poor people in Africa and amassing scores of billions of dollars in its investment portfolio.

So, from my perspective, you have a colossal lack of proportionality. You expect John Dehlin, who has spent thousands of hours helping people your failed Church had no idea what to do with and didn’t really care about as it went about amassing historically titanic wealth, to offer more than the “Gospel of Jesus Christ.” I think what lots of people would have preferred is if the LDS Church had simply understood and implemented the wonderful Gospel of Jesus Christ it has.

Instead we get tired, made up stories about plane crash miracles that never happened coupled with an investment finesse that would be the pride of Wall Street but should be the shame of any organization that presents itself to the world with the name Jesus Christ.

The money wouldn’t be so embarrassing if it weren’t so glaringly obvious that they are absolute failures at some of the most crucial aspects of being a Church. Yeah, they can build crap and keep the lights on, but once the going gets tough on making the faith credible and attractive beyond the sales pitch, they fold like a cheap deck of cards.
But I honestly don’t see them offering anything superior to the gospel of Jesus Christ. In a sense, they’re preaching their own gospel of no religion and/or of no God.
The Church claims to be all about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it has the resources to do that, and yet it fails outrageously while still collecting all those donations. John Dehlin and others like him pick up the pieces, offer something to those the LDS Church failed, and you can’t wrap your mind around the fact that it was the Church that failed them. Failed to do what they are supposed to be all about. That is why Dehlin et al are grinding out long hours taking care of hurting people. For much, much, much less money than the LDS Church gets.

So, why begrudge them the little bit of money they get? Your Church ain’t helping these people. You sure as hell can’t and won’t help them. What’s your problem then?

You should be a lot more concerned about the actual problem and not the people who are addressing it. At least they do something. You just whinge from the sidelines about how they are not doing better than your Church (when they actually are) for much less compensation.
Sorry I got you all riled up.

Regards,
MG
Outrageously, insultingly stupid posts do rile me up.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
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Dr Moore
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Dr Moore »

Well spoken Reverend. As usual, you put simple feelings to expression in wonderful prose.
MG 2.0
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

Dr Moore wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:59 am
Well spoken Reverend. As usual, you put simple feelings to expression in wonderful prose.
He does have a way with words, I’ll grant you that. And that you would be impressed with the content is not in the least surprising.

Kishkumen is a good spokesperson for those that are firmly implanted in the camp of the critics.

And honestly, there are many of his posts that I find interesting and enlightening. Not so much, however, with his most recent posts here. Too much vitriol mixed in with the “wonderful prose” for my tastes. But of course that shouldn’t come as any great surprise.

YMMV.

Regards,
MG
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Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Kishkumen »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:34 am
Kishkumen is a good spokesperson for those that are firmly implanted in the camp of the critics.

And honestly, there are many of his posts that I find interesting and enlightening.
I think it would be more accurate to say that I am not committed to the LDS Church, and my discussion of Mormonism reflects that. I often don’t align well with “the critics,” and these “critics” both disagree with me and don’t care for what I have to say.

But that’s OK. I don’t want to be their spokesman, and they don’t want me to be theirs.

That may be why you sometimes find my posts interesting and enlightening.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
malkie
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by malkie »

Personal observation, for what it's worth. Apologies in advance for the derail.

I made a point of contacting MG about 8 years ago when I was driving close to where he lived. (I lived about 2800 miles away, and was on a road trip to visit family.)

He graciously agreed to take some time out of his day for a chat with my wife and me. My impression at the time was that he was a decent guy who happened to largely disagree with me about the LDS church. We talked for about 20-30 minutes without any nastiness or belligerence on either side, and parted (I believe) on good terms.

Back then, on this board, I believe that he earned his moniker of "Mental Gymnast" for his tortured logic in defense of the church, but his posts were generally pleasant in tone - more so than some of mine.

It has saddened me to see how (from my PoV) he has changed since then. Perhaps it is the taking up of his musket that has made the change - I don't know - but there is now a bitterness and often nastiness that I don't think was there in his previous comments.

This is a big part of why I usually do not engage with him - I have no interest in having such unpleasant language directed at me.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Kishkumen »

malkie wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:26 am
Personal observation, for what it's worth. Apologies in advance for the derail.

I made a point of contacting MG about 8 years ago when I was driving close to where he lived. (I lived about 2800 miles away, and was on a road trip to visit family.)

He graciously agreed to take some time out of his day for a chat with my wife and me. My impression at the time was that he was a decent guy who happened to largely disagree with me about the LDS church. We talked for about 20-30 minutes without any nastiness or belligerence on either side, and parted (I believe) on good terms.

Back then, on this board, I believe that he earned his moniker of "Mental Gymnast" for his tortured logic in defense of the church, but his posts were generally pleasant in tone - more so than some of mine.

It has saddened me to see how (from my PoV) he has changed since then. Perhaps it is the taking up of his musket that has made the change - I don't know - but there is now a bitterness and often nastiness that I don't think was there in his previous comments.

This is a big part of why I usually do not engage with him - I have no interest in having such unpleasant language directed at me.
Thanks for adding that, malkie. It is good to know from your personal experience what I suspected to be true is in fact the case: MG is a decent person who is behaving badly because of his commitment to the LDS Church. I would like the think that the LDS Church actually doesn't want its members to behave in this way. And I would like to think that MG is not the person he portrays himself to be here.

I am pretty confident I am right in both cases.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
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