Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:51 pm
Hopefully, you and Vogel won't drop the ball and give up points. Get tough, throw the ball, and run it in for a touchdown!
Do you think if you had mentioned your ideas in a pioneer journal that Dan would appreciate them more?
For instance, in between detailing fatwas and propositions, you could mention that the prophet was making up the first vision as he went along. ;)
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5015
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Philo Sofee »

I will mention it, and then if I can't elaborate with Vogel on Sunday, I will make some podcasts of it in my new series of podcasts on God. You have done some impressive leg work on it all Shulem, it is time to tell it.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:37 am
I will mention it, and then if I can't elaborate with Vogel on Sunday, I will make some podcasts of it in my new series of podcasts on God. You have done some impressive leg work on it all Shulem, it is time to tell it.

That sounds terrific and a good plan. Everyone needs to learn what Joseph Smith said he learned and how and when he learned it is what matters. We know that Smith did not claim to see two personages in the 1832 account. That claim came later and my thread makes that perfectly clear as the question is answered with a simple explanation thanks to Smith running his mouth.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5015
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:32 am
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:37 am
I will mention it, and then if I can't elaborate with Vogel on Sunday, I will make some podcasts of it in my new series of podcasts on God. You have done some impressive leg work on it all Shulem, it is time to tell it.

That sounds terrific and a good plan. Everyone needs to learn what Joseph Smith said he learned and how and when he learned it is what matters. We know that Smith did not claim to see two personages in the 1832 account. That claim came later and my thread makes that perfectly clear as the question is answered with a simple explanation thanks to Smith running his mouth.
It is interesting that the papyri took him away from the biblical Monotheistic view of God all right. And then he turned around and read his "learning" back onto the Bible. This is what makes Charles Harrell's book on Mormon Doctrine so darned fascinating... every single major Mormon doctrine is read back into the Bible in order to help justify it, when, in point of fact, not one of the unique Smith doctrines is biblical, but man can they cleverly make it seem so...
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:26 pm
It is interesting that the papyri took him away from the biblical Monotheistic view of God all right. And then he turned around and read his "learning" back onto the Bible.

Philo, the seven pages of my First Vision thread will not just score a touchdown but will run up the score and decimate the other team -- with their heads hanging low they will crawl off the field in utter disgrace. I'm telling you, this thread destroys the First Vision account in which the Church today utterly depends on as their first truth claim. It wipes the Mormons out with touchdown after touchdown. We critics run up the score and claim victory. I'd love to see Daniel Peterson's sorry ass come to this board and challenge this NEW scholarship. We would so kick his ass!

Now, I can't say why RFM has failed to take these matters up in greater detail as I've outlined in the thread. He can speak for himself. But I hope you don't fail because there is a story to be told and the curtain has gone up and Joseph Fielding Smith stands before us, naked and defeated. We win, yeah baby! The gig is up.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5015
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:00 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:26 pm
It is interesting that the papyri took him away from the biblical Monotheistic view of God all right. And then he turned around and read his "learning" back onto the Bible.

Philo, the seven pages of my First Vision thread will not just score a touchdown but will run up the score and decimate the other team -- with their heads hanging low they will crawl off the field in utter disgrace. I'm telling you, this thread destroys the First Vision account in which the Church today utterly depends on as their first truth claim. It wipes the Mormons out with touchdown after touchdown. We critics run up the score and claim victory. I'd love to see Daniel Peterson's sorry ass come to this board and challenge this NEW scholarship. We would so kick his ass!

Now, I can't say why RFM has failed to take these matters up in greater detail as I've outlined in the thread. He can speak for himself. But I hope you don't fail because there is a story to be told and the curtain has gone up and Joseph Fielding Smith stands before us, naked and defeated. We win, yeah baby! The gig is up.
RFM and I will be discussing it next Sunday on my show... YEAHHHHHHH BABBBBBBY! We are having a pow-wow with David Bednar as guest of honorless deceiving of Mormons. It's gonna be H-U-G-E I tells ya!
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:42 pm
RFM and I will be discussing it next Sunday on my show... YEAHHHHHHH BABBBBBBY! We are having a pow-wow with David Bednar as guest of honorless deceiving of Mormons. It's gonna be H-U-G-E I tells ya!

Superduper! And I just finished podcast:

Backyard Professor: 01: The New BYP Podcasts – The Enigmatic Mormon God

It's well constructed and covered several key points in my Celestial First Vision Thread. Well, done! It serves to lead up to the final version of Smith's idea of who God is which differs from his original beliefs that was more in keeping with traditional Christianity. Smith apostatized from the Christianity of the Bible!

I still think the greatest unanswered question that remains today that the Church won't touch with a 10" pole is which of the two (Father & Son) has the largest penis? But, the Holy Ghost doesn't count because he can't get it up.

:lol:
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5015
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:22 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:42 pm
RFM and I will be discussing it next Sunday on my show... YEAHHHHHHH BABBBBBBY! We are having a pow-wow with David Bednar as guest of honorless deceiving of Mormons. It's gonna be H-U-G-E I tells ya!

Superduper! And I just finished podcast:

Backyard Professor: 01: The New BYP Podcasts – The Enigmatic Mormon God

It's well constructed and covered several key points in my Celestial First Vision Thread. Well, done! It serves to lead up to the final version of Smith's idea of who God is which differs from his original beliefs that was more in keeping with traditional Christianity. Smith apostatized from the Christianity of the Bible!

I still think the greatest unanswered question that remains today that the Church won't touch with a 10" pole is which of the two (Father & Son) has the largest penis? But, the Holy Ghost doesn't count because he can't get it up.

:lol:
Yes, as I get done with the infinity aspects of God in the next few podcasts, I am getting right into the First Vision, and YOU......YOU young man are taking center stage in your research which I will go through with a fine toothed comb! Oh man it's gonna rock!
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:06 pm
Yes, as I get done with the infinity aspects of God in the next few podcasts, I am getting right into the First Vision, and YOU......YOU young man are taking center stage in your research which I will go through with a fine toothed comb! Oh man it's gonna rock!

That sounds great!

You know, Joe should have told his audience that he learned about the plurality of the Gods during his First Vision experience rather than from the papyrus portraying images of the Gods. That should be an alarm bell for everyone who is concerned about the differences between the First Vision accounts. The apologists are going to have a tough time explaining it away and YOU, Backyard Professor, are becoming a thorn in their sides.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5015
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Dan Vogel on Joseph Smith's First Vision - Sunday LIVE

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:19 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:06 pm
Yes, as I get done with the infinity aspects of God in the next few podcasts, I am getting right into the First Vision, and YOU......YOU young man are taking center stage in your research which I will go through with a fine toothed comb! Oh man it's gonna rock!

That sounds great!

You know, Joe should have told his audience that he learned about the plurality of the Gods during his First Vision experience rather than from the papyrus portraying images of the Gods. That should be an alarm bell for everyone who is concerned about the differences between the First Vision accounts. The apologists are going to have a tough time explaining it away and YOU, Backyard Professor, are becoming a thorn in their sides.
Noooooooooo, I am only here to help them out in their conundrum is all... just lil ole me... and thee... and all the rest of us agree.... :lol:
Post Reply