Biden's Amazing Accomplishments Overlooked

[Vēritās]

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[Doctor CamNC4Me]

We traded a basketball player for an arms dealer?

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/internat ... ism-crimes

International Arms Dealer Viktor Bout Convicted in New York of Terrorism Crimes

Bout Convicted on All Four Counts, Including Conspiring to Kill Americans and Conspiring to Provide Material Support to Terrorists

NEW YORK – International arms dealer Viktor Bout was found guilty today of conspiring to sell millions of dollars worth of weapons to the Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia (FARC) – a designated foreign terrorist organization based in Colombia – to be used to kill Americans in Colombia, announced the Department of Justice.



“Today, one of the world’s most prolific arms dealers is being held accountable for his sordid past,” said Attorney General Eric Holder. “Viktor Bout’s arms trafficking activity and support of armed conflicts have been a source of concern around the globe for decades. Today, he faces the prospect of life in prison for his efforts to sell millions of dollars worth of weapons to terrorists for use in killing Americans."



“ As the evidence at trial showed, Viktor Bout was ready to sell a weapons arsenal that would be the envy of some small countries,” said U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York Preet Bharara. “He aimed to sell those weapons to terrorists for the purpose of killing Americans. With today’s swift verdict, justice has been done and a very dangerous man will be behind bars. I would like to acknowledge the extraordinary efforts of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents who investigated this case on three different continents and helped to bring Viktor Bout to justice.”



Bout was arrested in Thailand in March 2008 based on a complaint filed in Manhattan federal court. He was subsequently charged in a four-count indictment in May 2008 and extradited to the Southern District of New York in November 2010. Bout was convicted today of conspiring to kill U.S. nationals; conspiring to kill U.S. officers and employees; conspiring to acquire and use anti-aircraft missiles; and conspiring to provide material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization. The three-week jury trial was presided over by U.S. District Judge Shira A. Scheindlin.



According to the indictment and evidence presented at the trial:



Since the 1990s, Bout has been an international weapons trafficker. As a result of his weapons trafficking activities in Liberia, the U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control within the Department of Treasury placed him on the Specially Designated nationals list in 2004. The designation prohibits any transactions between Bout and U.S. nationals, and freezes any of his assets that are within the jurisdiction of the United States.

Between November 2007 and March 2008, Bout agreed to sell to the FARC millions of dollars’ worth of weapons – including 800 surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), 30,000 AK-47 firearms, 10 million rounds of ammunition, five tons of C-4 plastic explosives, “ultralight” airplanes outfitted with grenade launchers and unmanned aerial vehicles. Bout agreed to sell the weapons to two confidential sources working with the DEA (the “CSs”), who represented that they were acquiring them for the FARC, with the specific understanding that the weapons were to be used to attack U.S. helicopters in Colombia.



During a covertly recorded meeting in Thailand on March 6, 2008, Bout stated to the CSs that he could arrange to airdrop the arms to the FARC in Colombia, and offered to sell two cargo planes to the FARC that could be used for arms deliveries. He also provided a map of South America and asked the CSs to show him American radar locations in Colombia. Bout said that he understood that the CSs wanted the arms to use against American personnel in Colombia, and advised that, “we have the same enemy,” referring to the United States. He also stated that the FARC’s fight against the United States was also his fight and that he had been “fighting the United States…for 10 to 15 years.” During the meeting, he also offered to provide people to train the FARC in the use of the arms.



The evidence presented at trial included a recording of the March 6, 2008 meeting between Bout, the CSs, his former associate Andrew Smulian, and others. Smulian was charged along with Bout in the government’s March 2008 complaint and pleaded guilty in May 2008 to the four conspiracy counts of which Bout was just convicted. Smulian cooperated with the government and, along with the two CSs, provided testimony at the trial.

Bout faces a maximum sentence of life in prison on counts one through three, including a mandatory minimum sentence of 25 years in prison for count three. He faces a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison on count four.



Bout is scheduled to be sentenced by Judge Scheindlin on Feb. 8, 2012.

The case was investigated by the DEA, with assistance from the Royal Thai Police; the Romanian National Police; the Romanian Prosecutor’s Office Attached to the High Court of Cassation and Justice; the Korps Politie Curacao of the Netherlands Antilles; and the Danish National Police Security Services.



This case was prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorneys Anjan Sahni and Brendan R. Mcguire from the U.S. Attorney’s Office’s Terrorism and International Narcotics Unit. The Criminal Division’s Office of International Affairs provided assistance.

This isn’t the flex Twitter guy thinks it is. People are going to die at the hands of Bout. Unbelievable.

- Doc

[Vēritās]

We traded a basketball player for an arms dealer?

We traded for an American citizen who was unlawfully detained and had her rights stripped from her, so does it really matter what her profession is? Biden has a job to defend and protect American citizens overseas, and he's doing it.

[Vēritās]

Weird how no one complained when Trevor Reed, a white male, was released during a prisoner swap effectively putting a Russian drug dealer back on the streets. But Griner represents everything the Right detests. She's female, black, Lesbian, Democrat, and she vapes cannabis oil.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Weird how no one complained when Trevor Reed, a white male, was released during a prisoner swap effectively putting a Russian drug dealer back on the streets. But Griner represents everything the Right detests. She's female, black, Lesbian, Democrat, and she vapes cannabis oil.

You’re poisoning the well by assigning racist intent. You know better, but you don’t care. What’s worse, Joe Biden is fully aware of Viktor Bout’s history, but is trading for a *checks list* FEMALE . . . BLACK . . . LESBIAN . . . DEMOCRAT . . . THC SMOKER for an arms dealer. Awesome timing, too. What Russia needs right now in Ukraine is an expert who knows how to circumvent sanctions and embargoes so Russia can get its hands on more arms to kill Ukrainians.

- Doc

[Vēritās]

Weird how no one complained when Trevor Reed, a white male, was released during a prisoner swap effectively putting a Russian drug dealer back on the streets. But Griner represents everything the Right detests. She's female, black, Lesbian, Democrat, and she vapes cannabis oil.

You’re poisoning the well by assigning racist intent. You know better, but you don’t care. What’s worse, Joe Biden is fully aware of Viktor Bout’s history, but is trading for a *checks list* FEMALE . . . BLACK . . . LESBIAN . . . DEMOCRAT . . . THC SMOKER for an arms dealer. Awesome timing, too. What Russia needs right now in Ukraine is an expert who knows how to circumvent sanctions and embargoes so Russia can get its hands on more arms to kill Ukrainians.

- Doc

Not attributing racist intent to you, but the overall hysteria about this begins and ends in the Right Wing ecosphere simply because she encapsulates all the qualities that they've demonized. They're selling this lame argument that really their main concern is that arms not be dealt illegally between other countries! Yeah, that's what they're selling and you're buying it. For crying out loud you just said Russia is going to rely on this guy to provide arms to fight against Ukraine! WTF? Is that really how you think it works? Where do you think these arms come from? Virtually everything this guy sold on the black market originated from Russia.

Anyway, how would you feel if Griner were your daughter?

And what do you think is more likely? That someone you know or love might die from a drug overdose or someone you know or love will get caught in the cross hairs of some revolutionary militia attack like the one Bout was providing arms for in Colombia? The reason I ask is because Trevor Reed was swapped for a guy who smuggled more than $100 million in cocaine. Where was the outrage?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

If you make a cursory google search of Viktor Bout, to include a reading of his wiki page along with the footnotes, you’ll realize he’s a highly connected man within the Russian kleptocracy. Why wouldn’t Russia make use of his knowledge, expertise, contacts, and influence to circumvent current sanctions in order to get arms where they want them now? You basically got an all-star for nothing; you’d be crazy to put him on the bench.

You ask me how I’d feel if it were my daughter? Well, let me turn the table on you. How would you feel if your family were wiped out because of the arms Viktor Bout got into your country, and you just saw the US government hand him over for someone who was told not to go to Russia, not to take drugs to Russia, and was clearly a bargaining chip once she was arrested?

The sheer amount of multi-agency work to get Viktor Bout off the street was mind blowing, but whatevs. I support diplomacy and our government working to get Americans back onto American soil, but it doesn’t mean every swap is a justified 1:1 in terms of value to our system. You brought up the ‘Marine’ (dishonorably discharged), for example. Had it been him instead of Griner I’d feel worse than I do now, because it’s obviously not a good trade. There can be gradations in morality and value with regard to diplomacy- the way you frame this is waaaaaay over the top. It can still be a good thing for Griner, her family, her supporters, and a bad deal for people who were and will be affected by this man being back in the game.

- Doc

[Vēritās]

I think you overestimate the significance of Bout being back "on the streets" in terms of safety to Americans. First of all, he's currently being surveilled most likely and he's been banned from entering the countries of most if not all of our allies. You should watch the movie Lord of War with Nic Cage because it was based on Bout's life, and you'll notice he isn't giving anyone weapons that they weren't going to get elsewhere anyway. It was a cut throat business with very high competition. It would be like saying oh no, Circuit City is going out of business, how would we ever be able to get that flat screen TV now?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think you overestimate the significance of Bout being back "on the streets" in terms of safety to Americans. First of all, he's currently being surveilled most likely and he's been banned from entering the countries of most if not all of our allies. You should watch the movie Lord of War with Nic Cage because it was based on Bout's life, and you'll notice he isn't giving anyone weapons that they weren't going to get elsewhere anyway. It was a cut throat business with very high competition. It would be like saying oh no, Circuit City is going out of business, how would we ever be able to get that flat screen TV now?

I’m genuinely shocked you’d use a Hollywood movie to delegitimize the danger a man who was dangerous enough in the first place to roll up. It’s . . . well, it’s an interesting tactic. Be that as it may, I get where you’re at coming from, but I think you’re throwing in with someone who may not really deserve your support to the degree you’re presenting it.

For example, Griner had a list of states she wouldn't play in due to her LGBTQ and BLM politics. Which is her right, and I support her freedom to act conscientiously. However, ~a year later she sells out to a Russian oligarch for . . . money. We’re all aware of Russia’s laws and policies with regard to LGBTQ people, so all her protesting seemed to ring hollow. Worse, that oligarch is a literal criminal - murder, scams, racketeering, etc., and if he were to set foot on US soil he’d be in prison. That’s who she threw in with. It’s her right to do business with that guy, but she destroyed her ‘legacy’ outside of being arrested for some domestic stuff that you yourself took Herschel Walker to task over.

I get the politics of this*. Black Americans have legitimate grudges against the federal government, and I think this is Biden’s way to demonstrate to them that they get equal treatment if they’re overseas in that we’ll work our hardest to get them back on US soil if they’re wronged. I think that’s a good message to send, but goddamn if Griner didn’t shoot herself in the foot in every possible way.

- Doc

* the Biden admin knows there’s absolutely zero they can do to move the needle for Rightists, but this Griner thing hits a lot of needle moving for Blacks, Gays, pro-marijuana types, perhaps women, and most definitely white Liberals, so it’s a smart move on their part to bring her home.

[Vēritās]

I’m genuinely shocked you’d use a Hollywood movie to delegitimize the danger a man who was dangerous enough in the first place to roll up. It’s . . . well, it’s an interesting tactic. Be that as it may, I get where you’re at coming from, but I think you’re throwing in with someone who may not really deserve your support to the degree you’re presenting it.

Well yes, watching that movie would be educational given that you thought he would be providing arms to Russia to help them in Ukraine. You seem to think arms dealers just magically produce all sorts of weapons from their butt or something and he was Russia's golden goose. I do think the "danger" he presents to Americans has been overblown, and that has nothing to do with the movie. And I think everyone is forgetting that he was serving a 25 year sentence (not 40, not 60 not life, but only 25!) and was eventually going to be released anyway. He had been detained since 2008, so he was more than halfway through his sentence anyway, whereas Griner was only recently detained.

For example, Griner had a list of states she wouldn't play in due to her LGBTQ and BLM politics. Which is her right, and I support her freedom to act conscientiously. However, ~a year later she sells out to a Russian oligarch for . . . money. We’re all aware of Russia’s laws and policies with regard to LGBTQ people, so all her protesting seemed to ring hollow.

You don't seem to understand why people protest to begin with. It is to bring awareness and encourage change. There is no chance in hell protesting Russia would produce change in Russia. So comparing activism at the state level and the international level is kinda silly.

Worse, that oligarch is a literal criminal - murder, scams, racketeering, etc., and if he were to set foot on US soil he’d be in prison. That’s who she threw in with. It’s her right to do business with that guy, but she destroyed her ‘legacy’ outside of being arrested for some domestic stuff that you yourself took Herschel Walker over.

So the guy who owns the team she plays for is a bad actor, and so all of that automatically rubs off on her?

I get the politics of this*. Black Americans have legitimate grudges against the federal government, and I think this is Biden’s way to demonstrate to them that they get equal treatment if they’re overseas in that we’ll work our hardest to get them back on US soil if they’re wronged. I think that’s a good message to send, but goddamn if Griner didn’t shoot herself in the foot in every possible way.

Biden has been working to bring home many people not just Griner. Earlier this year he secured the release of Seven Americans from Venezuela, none of whom were black, female or basketball stars. Not everything is political. Sometimes people do what they do because it is their job, and it is the Presidents job to protect Americans abroad from injustice. The Griner situation was more like a kidnap than anything else. The charges were a joke as was her 9 year sentence.