Mormon Missionaries thinking critically about their religion for the first time

[drumdude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epnohcqUh5I

It seems that DCP, Kwaku, Hamlin are done- no prominent Mormons are left to debate anyone. They can't defend their positions and won't engage outside of carefully controlled terms (like belittling Gemli in the SeN comment section). So missionaries are thrown to the wolves with 4 years of high school "seminary" as their training to defend the church.

At the beginning of the video, the missionaries can't even answer a simple question about 1Nep 10:

"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the bother is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

What is the Book of Mormon talking about here? They hem and haw and realize it can't mean what it plainly says.

What follows is 40 minutes of excruciating back and forth as the missionaries realize their church makes no sense and the answer is always "we just believe."

At the end, it appears an LDS adult comes to rescue the poor kids.

Why won't DCP or some other prominent LDS adult actually defend the church? Why is the church feeding kids fresh out of high school to the spiritual wolves, with no good answers to defend themselves?

[Marcus]

wow. do they not learn in Seminary anymore that they are supposed to recognize the Catholic church as the whore of the world? And that that is the 'other' church? that would at least buy missionaries a little wiggle room, as they could argue protestant churches and the like are closer to Mormon, therefore, not total abominations and whores. What do these children learn in Seminary these days?!!!

[dastardly stem]

I can't listen to these videos all the way through. i got a few minutes in. That was an easy question I remember getting as a missionary. We were all primed for it back in the day. "no...this isn't meaning actual physical churches or institutions. it's more a spiritual differentiation. There is one spiritual church. it can be manned by many Mormons, non-Mormons...christians of all stripes, buddhists, muslims, nones....And everyone else that is not a part of that, as determined by God, mind you, is a part of the devil's church which also might include people from all the various groups. I encourage you to read your New Testament and understand Jesus' teachings even more by adding more such teachings as found in our lovely scripturebooks. Remember Jesus taught that some whom he calls are wise and some are foolish. Either/or, baby. That's the way of that old dude who supposedly roamed around Jerusalem and area."

Or some such stuff.

"So only people who go to your church are a part of God's true church?

"Nah...I'm basically saying the opposite of that. God favors people from all walks of life. We have a time next Saturday at 1 pm where we baptize people, will that time work for you??

"But I heard you think Jesus and Satan are brothers too. I can't believe someone as great as Jesus had a brother that was the devil."

"ah well. win some and lose some...check ya later."

"but wait...you worship Joseph Smith instead of Jesus of nazareth. Why?"

"why worship anyone? Seems like a waste. You sure you don't wanna get baptized?"

"damn sure. And I use that curse word as a cursing upon you."

"you really don't understand who God's really been cursing do you? Sill, the appointment will remain open. I hope you repent and get baptized. Read your scriptures and feel God move inside you. peace and all of that crap."

pretty sure I just verbatim'd one such conversation.

[drumdude]

We have a time next Saturday at 1 pm where we baptize people, will that time work for you??

How Mormon missionaries come out of that salesman experience with their faith intact is truly the most impressive miracle.

[dastardly stem]

We have a time next Saturday at 1 pm where we baptize people, will that time work for you??

How Mormon missionaries come out of that salesman experience with their faith intact is truly the most impressive miracle.

Yeah...no doubt. I look back and wonder what the heck I was thinking. But everything was a miracle to me back then. "holy crap! I just got an A on my chemistry exam. must have been a miracle. i slept through the class due to working night shifts all term. Thank God."

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Want to know how effective mopology is? Just read this exchange from SeN's proprietor and an earnestly questioning poster named Malcom J Leitch:

Malcolm J Leitch
Two questions.... If evolution is the reason why human beings look the way they do, why our morphology is the way it is, why does God look like an evolved ape?

If the spirit bodies of creatures were "created" and they look the same as the physical bodies, does that mean evolution occurred in the pre-Earth spiritual environment resulting in life that looks like it evolved?

DanielPeterson to Malcolm J Leitch
MJL: " If evolution is the reason why human beings look the way they do, why our morphology is the way it is, why does God look like an evolved ape?"

Why not?

MJL: "If the spirit bodies of creatures were "created" and they look the same as the physical bodies, does that mean evolution occurred in the pre-Earth spiritual environment resulting in life that looks like it evolved?"

Dunno.

Malcolm J Leitch to DanielPeterson
"Why not?", because it requires evolution to build a hominid. That would imply that God looks the way He does as a result of evolution - which makes no sense.

DanielPeterson to Malcolm J Leitch
MJL: "which makes no sense"

Why not?

Malcolm J Leitch to DanielPeterson
If the morphology of God is that way because of evolution, when did that happen?
Which came first, evolution or God?
What are the implications of either option?

DanielPeterson to Malcolm J Leitch
5 hours ago
If you know of a revelation answering your questions, Mr. Leitch, I hope that you'll share it with us.

[Philo Sofee]

Want to know how effective mopology is? Just read this exchange from SeN's proprietor and an earnestly questioning poster named Malcom J Leitch:

Malcolm J Leitch
Two questions.... If evolution is the reason why human beings look the way they do, why our morphology is the way it is, why does God look like an evolved ape?

If the spirit bodies of creatures were "created" and they look the same as the physical bodies, does that mean evolution occurred in the pre-Earth spiritual environment resulting in life that looks like it evolved?

DanielPeterson to Malcolm J Leitch
MJL: " If evolution is the reason why human beings look the way they do, why our morphology is the way it is, why does God look like an evolved ape?"

Why not?

MJL: "If the spirit bodies of creatures were "created" and they look the same as the physical bodies, does that mean evolution occurred in the pre-Earth spiritual environment resulting in life that looks like it evolved?"

Dunno.

Malcolm J Leitch to DanielPeterson
"Why not?", because it requires evolution to build a hominid. That would imply that God looks the way He does as a result of evolution - which makes no sense.

DanielPeterson to Malcolm J Leitch
MJL: "which makes no sense"

Why not?

Malcolm J Leitch to DanielPeterson
If the morphology of God is that way because of evolution, when did that happen?
Which came first, evolution or God?
What are the implications of either option?

DanielPeterson to Malcolm J Leitch
5 hours ago
If you know of a revelation answering your questions, Mr. Leitch, I hope that you'll share it with us.

Mopologists reduced to utter rubble.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

I have a hard time watching missionary videos. I find them triggering. After all these years I still regret that I spent two years of my precious youth in the service of an deceptive greedy organization.

[Shulem]

I have a hard time watching missionary videos. I find them triggering. After all these years I still regret that I spent two years of my precious youth in the service of an deceptive greedy organization.

That and the money thrown away that could have otherwise been enjoyed in retirement.

Yeah, I want my money back, but it is what it is.

I HATE the Church. I want to wrap my hands around the throat of the Church and kill it.

[Father Francis]

I have a hard time watching missionary videos. I find them triggering. After all these years I still regret that I spent two years of my precious youth in the service of an deceptive greedy organization.

Hopefully you at least learned a second language. That's the only reason I wish I had gone. I've always wanted to gain proficiency in another language. It's hard to do even when you're immersed in their culture, but seems damn near impossible when you aren't.