Making Covenants

[huckelberry]

I’ve been reading a book by Kerry Muhlestein whom many of you are probably familiar with. In this book he lays out the importance of making covenants with God.

As runewell points out, that's an incorrect assertion by Mulestain.

Speaking from a Christian point of view that is an incorrect assumption, using two verses from the book of John:
John 1:12 says "Yet to all who did receive him [Jesus], to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God."
John 8:38 says "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires"

Having been born into sin our father is the devil, not God, and it requires faith in Jesus to become a child of God.

Unless he's differentiating Mormons from Christians...

runewell has made a grotesque oversimplification. His scripture is one moment in time for specfic individuals attacking Jesus. To apply that to all humanity is false, groundless and thoughtless.

[IHAQ]

runewell has made a grotesque oversimplification. His scripture is one moment in time for specfic individuals attacking Jesus. To apply that to all humanity is false, groundless and thoughtless.

Why? The one thing MG2.0 has said that I agree with, is that you can make the scriptures say anything.

[huckelberry]

runewell has made a grotesque oversimplification. His scripture is one moment in time for specfic individuals attacking Jesus. To apply that to all humanity is false, groundless and thoughtless.

Why? The one thing MG2.0 has said that I agree with, is that you can make the scriptures say anything.

It would require an unusual commitment to some anything and a willingness to blindly cut and combine then yes somebody could present scripture fragments to support most any proposition.

Most people have the sense to look at the larger picture not fragments. Scriptures are interpreted differently by different people but I do not see people interpreting just any old way. People actually think about how they do that. I stated why I thought the proposal that we are children of Satan until conversion to Jesus is not reasonably a conclusion from the quoted scripture. I believe we all are in bondage to sin including Christians. I actually would look at objective evidence of how people behave to guide my reading though the Bible notices the same thing.

[canpakes]

MG,

Why would there be a requirement for a mortal middleman, to create a ‘valid’ covenant?

It would seem strange that God would just figure on making all of humanity wait several thousand years until deciding to let Joseph Smith start a church, so that any covenants could then be processed through said Church and deemed valid.

How would you know what these covenants are and how they are administered without an earthly conduit?

Why is an earthly conduit required? Same question as before.

If God is supposedly talking to a mortal somewhere already, then there’s no reason that God can’t talk to any or every mortal.

Given that the folks who’ve declared themselves mortal conduits (while not offering any proof of such) have issued many changes to their message over the years - and the apparent fact that these self-declared conduits have trouble themselves figuring when their peers ‘speak as a man’ - why not rely on your direct line to God? Isn’t that what the Holy Ghost is supposed to assist with?

Again, without God revealing covenants how would you know what said covenants are?

Again, see above.

[MG 2.0]

I’m learning a lot about covenants and covenant keeping that I haven’t ever really thought about before.

Please give the board 3 examples of things you have learnt about covenants from Mulestain's book that you haven't really thought about before.

Can you also quote something from the book in support of those 3 examples that isn't included within the free sample content that Amazon provides?

Sure.

1. The New and Everlasting Covenant is the sum total of all gospel covenants and obligations.
2. The greatest blessings we receive from God all focus on strengthening our relationship with Him until our bond has grown so strong that we can be with Him because we have become like Him. This blessing is given within a certain context. Covenant making and covenant keeping.
3. Covenants are inextricably connected with God’s love for us. He wants to bind us to him. He wants us to belong to Him. That can only happen as we covenant to become more like Him through obedience to His law and commandments. It can happen in no other way.

These are ideas that are reinforced or added to just in the first nine pages. I expect to come across many other pearls of wisdom from the author as I continue reading. If you read it, come back and we can share more thoughts/insights.

That’s an invitation.

I am not aware of the free sample content that you are referring to as I did not refer to it. I have the book sitting here on my read pile. I received it from my Elders Quorum President at Christmas. I serve in the presidency with him.

Thanks for taking a sincere interest.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Mormons aren't Christians, in that Mormons fundamentally disagree on the material matter of who is, and who isn't, a child of God.

Are you an Evangelical Christian?

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are Christian. Our Ward Conference today was ALL about Jesus Christ and the covenants we make with Him.

Testimony was born of His reality and Atoning sacrifice for us.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Most people have the sense to look at the larger picture not fragments.

Yup. And some don’t.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

If God is supposedly talking to a mortal somewhere already, then there’s no reason that God can’t talk to any or every mortal.

If God has a certain set of covenants that also require authority to administer, that limits the number of people who receive those covenants.

And there would need to be an administrator. Unless you’re thinking God is going to administer those same specific covenants to everyone one by one.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

[inaccurate paraphrase deleted - please do not include anything within a quote that doesn’t accurately represent the quoted person’s words. RI] Week after week, despite the master classes that have been afforded him here.

- Doc

I bow to your unique way of teaching and insight, Doc. You are a master.

We should break bread. I could learn more at the feet of a true sage.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

runewell has made a good faith contribution to that discussion, so you are duty bound to enter in to responding to that properly. Unless you're not acting in good faith? Unless you're running away from the discussion...again?

Read huckleberry’s comments. You’re making a bit of a fool out of yourself.

Your last sentence above?

Meh.

Regards,
MG