Church comments on SEC settlement

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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Reddit is reporting that the church is going to update its official logo:

Image
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Philo Sofee
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Philo Sofee »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:37 am
Reddit is reporting that the church is going to update its official logo:

Image
Sincerely perrrrrfect!!! I noted this in one of the intellectual stints at night that clobber me ole noggin every now and then and made a video record of it a few weeks back. It's worth a 15 minute watch. I testify this new logo is true... :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAMtOgQH9Qo&t=31s
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:37 am
Reddit is reporting that the church is going to update its official logo:
One item you will not read about on the Mormon D&D board is that the Church has more riches stored with Ensign Peak than the hordes of Smaug and Scrooge McDuck combined.

Smaug's horde is estimated to be $55 billion and Scrooge McDuck's fortune is even less. McDuck even pays some taxes.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Apparently a lot of Mormons are dipping due to this SEC thing. In response to someone expressing surprise as to why this is the thing that’s causing a mass apostasy in faithful places like Utah and Arizona this Redditor explained the following:
(Preface: I’m happily post-Mormon in my life so take my comments as you will but they’re given in good faith):
The “SEC thing” is (as you say, kind of dismissively) “such a big deal” to many because:

1) it documents a pattern that spanned over 20 years of an intentional attempt by the church to deceive the us government, the general public, AND of the church members
2) that intentional deception was conceived of and carried out not only BY the most senior church leaders (over twenty years!) but at their specific direction. (Hell, James E Foust gave a talk in GC about “honesty” just about a month AFTER helping direct setting up this deceptive program! This reeks of hypocrisy to many)
3) the intentional use of deceptive “shell companies” was both illegal AND unethical. At least two active LDS fund managers resigned in protest because what they were being asked to do was SO illegal and SO professionally unethical
4) the church leadership ordered this intentionally deceptive and illegal program specifically because, according to the report, they were afraid that if members knew how much was in each account, they (general church members) would be less willing to send in tithing
5) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind the temple recommend interview question about “being honest in your dealings w your fellow men”
6) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind the Article of faith that say we “honor obey and sustain the law”
7) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind Jesus’ teaching to “give unto Caesar what is of Caesar (specifically taxes)
8) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind Jesus’s teaching to “take no thought of the morrow” “don’t set your heart on treasures on earth” (eg riches), “sell all you have and give it to the poor” etc etc
9) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind the tithes they gave, falsely believing those tithes would go specifically to help people in need or other such church related activities and not to be secretly invested in Victorias Secret stock or Starbucks stock (which are companies that many people like my elderly very TBM mother would not endorse for her personal investments or retirement savings)
10) just recently the church met w the VP of Zimbabwe (If I recall correctly) and embarrassingly said “we’re not a wealthy people” while the church was intentionally and illegally trying to hide billions of dollars from the light of day. Many people see this as just one example of lying by senior church leaders.

I’m sure there are other objections too. But the whole thing stinks. Really badly. Really REALLY badly. Just because the fine was “only” $5M… it was STILL $5M which a) shows the church is admitting getting caught and admitting criminal behavior and b) is a lot of money that is being paid for with tithing-derived funds. Most people who faithfully paid tithing did not intend their money to be used for criminal fines.

Hope that helps you understand why some church members see this as a pretty big deal. The church’s official statement was laughable, basically tried weakly to blame their accountants or lawyers, and concluded with “we consider this matter closed”.

Just because they say “this matter is closed” does not, in fact, mean the matter is closed.
Again, I’m reading about a LOT of Wards contracting quickly. This SEC scandal isn't ‘closed’ like the Q15 hopes it’d be.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by MG 2.0 »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:22 am
Dr Exiled wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:19 am


Benign and altruistic when they lied on form 13F? When they unnecessarily created the LLC's scattered throughout the country? Really? I don't see how you can justify that belief, but, again, cognitive dissonance is a real phenomenon. If the sun is shining and you believe it isn't, that doesn't make the sun stop shining.
Clearly, to MG, the leaders can never do wrong to the point of criticism from MG. He is truly assimilated.
I have questioned some decisions that have been made by church leaders ever since the beginning days of the restoration. But that doesn’t then entail a knee jerk response of rejecting their stewardship and the keys of authority that they possess.

You, on the other hand, see things differently.

Divergent paths. Divergent destinations.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Marcus »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:11 pm
Apparently a lot of Mormons are dipping due to this SEC thing. In response to someone expressing surprise as to why this is the thing that’s causing a mass apostasy in faithful places like Utah and Arizona this Redditor explained the following:
(Preface: I’m happily post-Mormon in my life so take my comments as you will but they’re given in good faith):
The “SEC thing” is (as you say, kind of dismissively) “such a big deal” to many because:

1) it documents a pattern that spanned over 20 years of an intentional attempt by the church to deceive the us government, the general public, AND of the church members
2) that intentional deception was conceived of and carried out not only BY the most senior church leaders (over twenty years!) but at their specific direction. (Hell, James E Foust gave a talk in GC about “honesty” just about a month AFTER helping direct setting up this deceptive program! This reeks of hypocrisy to many)
3) the intentional use of deceptive “shell companies” was both illegal AND unethical. At least two active LDS fund managers resigned in protest because what they were being asked to do was SO illegal and SO professionally unethical
4) the church leadership ordered this intentionally deceptive and illegal program specifically because, according to the report, they were afraid that if members knew how much was in each account, they (general church members) would be less willing to send in tithing
5) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind the temple recommend interview question about “being honest in your dealings w your fellow men”
6) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind the Article of faith that say we “honor obey and sustain the law”
7) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind Jesus’ teaching to “give unto Caesar what is of Caesar (specifically taxes)
8) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind Jesus’s teaching to “take no thought of the morrow” “don’t set your heart on treasures on earth” (eg riches), “sell all you have and give it to the poor” etc etc
9) many members feel like this intentional and illegally deceptive practice does not reflect the spirit behind the tithes they gave, falsely believing those tithes would go specifically to help people in need or other such church related activities and not to be secretly invested in Victorias Secret stock or Starbucks stock (which are companies that many people like my elderly very TBM mother would not endorse for her personal investments or retirement savings)
10) just recently the church met w the VP of Zimbabwe (If I recall correctly) and embarrassingly said “we’re not a wealthy people” while the church was intentionally and illegally trying to hide billions of dollars from the light of day. Many people see this as just one example of lying by senior church leaders.

I’m sure there are other objections too. But the whole thing stinks. Really badly. Really REALLY badly. Just because the fine was “only” $5M… it was STILL $5M which a) shows the church is admitting getting caught and admitting criminal behavior and b) is a lot of money that is being paid for with tithing-derived funds. Most people who faithfully paid tithing did not intend their money to be used for criminal fines.

Hope that helps you understand why some church members see this as a pretty big deal. The church’s official statement was laughable, basically tried weakly to blame their accountants or lawyers, and concluded with “we consider this matter closed”.

Just because they say “this matter is closed” does not, in fact, mean the matter is closed.
Again, I’m reading about a LOT of Wards contracting quickly. This SEC scandal isn't ‘closed’ like the Q15 hopes it’d be.

- Doc
agreed. someone posted on reddit this message
Copied from another post about a ward in Utah:

“I should also add that it's not exactly the promised land here in Utah. 50% of endowed members in my ward don't have a current recommend. I was the executive secretary, and I stopped sending reminders because it got too depressing seeing how many people told me they didn't want to renew it. We have 500 members, but usually around 80 come every week, and there are 4 families that come on time (I know, because they were our go-to families for when the opening prayer didn't show up). And the vast majority of "active" members refuse to pay tithing.”
Wow.
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Philo Sofee »

Marcus
agreed. someone posted on reddit this message
Copied from another post about a ward in Utah:

“I should also add that it's not exactly the promised land here in Utah. 50% of endowed members in my ward don't have a current recommend. I was the executive secretary, and I stopped sending reminders because it got too depressing seeing how many people told me they didn't want to renew it. We have 500 members, but usually around 80 come every week, and there are 4 families that come on time (I know, because they were our go-to families for when the opening prayer didn't show up). And the vast majority of "active" members refuse to pay tithing.”
Wow.
Agreed, wow! And we shall, I suspect, see this only increase once we see at General Conference in just a few weeks how many other church leaders (the 12 and the 70's) either raise their hands to sustain the liars in the First Presidency (all 3 of them), or how many oppose. We are very soon to see if the corruption actually does go all the way down the entire leadership. And yes I am going to make videos on the significance of whatever happens whatever way. This is going to be milestone watershed moment in Mormonism.
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Sajan »

Dr. Sunstoned wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:21 am
As I read through this latest news, I keep thing about past statements like this:

"There has been no attempt on the part of the church leaders to try to hide anything from anybody." —M. Russell Ballard

It's understandable that past statements like the one you mentioned may come to mind when reading the latest news. Such statements often reflect the perspective of the speaker at the time they were made. Context, evolving situations, and new information can sometimes provide a different understanding or shed light on the complexities of a given situation.
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Rivendale »

Sajan wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:43 am
Dr. Sunstoned wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:21 am
As I read through this latest news, I keep thing about past statements like this:

"There has been no attempt on the part of the church leaders to try to hide anything from anybody." —M. Russell Ballard

It's understandable that past statements like the one you mentioned may come to mind when reading the latest news. Such statements often reflect the perspective of the speaker at the time they were made. Context, evolving situations, and new information can sometimes provide a different understanding or shed light on the complexities of a given situation.
Ballard knows about the first vision description that was cut out of a letterbook and locked in a safe for 30 years until the Tanners forced its removal and subsequent insertion back into the letterbook.
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Philo Sofee »

Doc
The “SEC thing” is (as you say, kind of dismissively) “such a big deal” to many because:

1) it documents a pattern that spanned over 20 years of an intentional attempt by the church to deceive the us government, the general public, AND of the church members
Exactly. This is not simple human error or mere fallibility. This was a choice. A choice made for over 20 years.
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