I disagree with the entire premise of this thread. If there really are problems, then they are the concern of all, not just “secular folks.”
Agreed. Although it seems that the religious folks may be the ones sounding the alarm.
If indeed we can see that civil society is at risk down the road with secularism possibly being a contributor towards that unwanted outcome, we ALL ought to at least take notice and determine the risk factors and then look at what can be done.
As it is, civil society seems to have deteriorated somewhat even at this juncture. Is it the gradual decline in religiosity along with other factors?
It’s worth exploring. There may be some other hard data sets to look out there that some here might find more reliable than that referred to in the Deseret News article. But this particular data set is a bit disconcerting.
It “seems” that way after MG, a religious person, links to a survey conducted by religious people.
-_-
- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
I think this is more of the religious freedom themed arguments we heard after cojcolds suffered the same-sex marriage defeat. They are flailing about looking for a justification for their continued existence and position in society. We've moved away from religion, but, I am confident that the humanity that created religion will do just fine without it.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
civil society seems to have deteriorated somewhat even at this juncture
In the summer of 2020, we had riots in the streets and buildings burning, while a global pandemic raged on and killed millions.
In the spring of 2021, we had rioters storming the capitol to stop a Presidential election.
In the spring of 2022, Russia invaded a neighbor starting the biggest war in Europe since WWII.
In the spring of 2023, we're complaining about the price of eggs while arguing from the comfort of our thousand dollar iPads.
Civil society seems (to me) remarkably strong and our way of life has barely changed at all even in the face of these unprecedented events.
Family values and structures have radically changed. Views of morality with GenZ are continuing a radical change in regards to honesty/lying and what used to be considered moral behavior.
How Faith Impacts Gen Z’s Views of Morality
Engaged Christian teens (see definition below) are a stark contrast to their peers on moral issues. There are significant gaps between their beliefs and all others, including other churchgoing teens, suggesting that church attendance alone does not transmit more traditionally orthodox views. For instance, engaged Christians are more than twice as likely to say that lying is wrong (77%) compared to their churched counterparts (38%), and almost four times more likely than those who claim no faith (20%).
The belief that lying is morally wrong is the most commonly shared moral sentiment among the faith segments, alongside marriage as a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman. The greatest differences surround sexuality. For instance, more than three-quarters of engaged Christians believe sex before marriage (76%) and homosexual behavior are morally wrong (77%), compared to only fractions of those with no faith (5% and 4% respectively) and one-quarter of churched Christians (25% and 24% respectively).
Disclaimer, this is written/researched and published by religionists.
Secularism, as I’ve said, is not ‘tried and true’ in regards to guiding humanity towards a place where moral values…such as honesty and fidelity…are in the top tier of those things which are truly important. It becomes a world of relativism.
The danger is the breakdown of a cohesive civil society where most people can be trusted to do the right things for the right reasons. We are looking at a future where moral bankruptcy is ‘a thing’, even much more so than what we’re already seeing.
GenZ is much more willing to let government leaders make the decisions as to what is right and wrong. And they find support among many millennials.
The danger is the breakdown of a cohesive civil society where most people can be trusted to do the right things for the right reasons. We are looking at a future where moral bankruptcy is ‘a thing’, even much more so than what we’re already seeing.
You lie constantly about everything, and you’re the most relativistic person I’ve seen post on this forum.
Conservatives - Every accusation is an admission.
eta: A user that goes by the name MENTAL GYMNAST deigns to lecture others on relativism. gmafb
- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
The danger is the breakdown of a cohesive civil society where most people can be trusted to do the right things for the right reasons. We are looking at a future where moral bankruptcy is ‘a thing’, even much more so than what we’re already seeing.
You lie constantly about everything, and you’re the relativistic person I’ve seen post on this forum.
An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, rude, or upsetting statements online to elicit strong emotional responses in people or to steer the conversation off-topic.
In the summer of 2020, we had riots in the streets and buildings burning, while a global pandemic raged on and killed millions.
In the spring of 2021, we had rioters storming the capitol to stop a Presidential election.
In the spring of 2022, Russia invaded a neighbor starting the biggest war in Europe since WWII.
In the spring of 2023, we're complaining about the price of eggs while arguing from the comfort of our thousand dollar iPads.
Civil society seems (to me) remarkably strong and our way of life has barely changed at all even in the face of these unprecedented events.
Family values and structures have radically changed. Views of morality with GenZ are continuing a radical change in regards to honesty/lying and what used to be considered moral behavior.
How Faith Impacts Gen Z’s Views of Morality
Engaged Christian teens (see definition below) are a stark contrast to their peers on moral issues. There are significant gaps between their beliefs and all others, including other churchgoing teens, suggesting that church attendance alone does not transmit more traditionally orthodox views. For instance, engaged Christians are more than twice as likely to say that lying is wrong (77%) compared to their churched counterparts (38%), and almost four times more likely than those who claim no faith (20%).
The belief that lying is morally wrong is the most commonly shared moral sentiment among the faith segments, alongside marriage as a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman. The greatest differences surround sexuality. For instance, more than three-quarters of engaged Christians believe sex before marriage (76%) and homosexual behavior are morally wrong (77%), compared to only fractions of those with no faith (5% and 4% respectively) and one-quarter of churched Christians (25% and 24% respectively).
Disclaimer, this is written/researched and published by religionists.
Secularism, as I’ve said, is not ‘tried and true’ in regards to guiding humanity towards a place where moral values…such as honesty and fidelity…are in the top tier of those things which are truly important. It becomes a world of relativism.
The danger is the breakdown of a cohesive civil society where most people can be trusted to do the right things for the right reasons. We are looking at a future where moral bankruptcy is ‘a thing’, even much more so than what we’re already seeing.
GenZ is much more willing to let government leaders make the decisions as to what is right and wrong. And they find support among many millennials.
That’s dangerous.
Regards,
MG
I come back to the argument that the survey has a point of view it asserts from which it's findings derive.
As a counterpoint to the claims of the EV survey (which, again, isn't favorable towards non-born again Christians), other studies find Gen Z to be very concerned about social issues. Just not how religious types want society to be. In fact, those views of what makes for a better society often conflict.
Based on your research, can you briefly describe the typical Gen Zer?
In summary, a typical Gen Zer is a self-driver who deeply cares about others, strives for a diverse community, is highly collaborative and social, values flexibility, relevance, authenticity and non-hierarchical leadership, and, while dismayed about inherited issues like climate change, has a pragmatic attitude about the work that has to be done to address those issues.
You want to see a certain religious worldview stand in for civil society, and for reasons only of value to folks with those religious beliefs. To others who view diversity and authenticity as favorable, a church like yours founded on conformity and hierarchy may be destined for the dustbin for good reason.
Last edited by honorentheos on Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
