The interesting thing to me is something that I’ve intuitively deduced over time. It is this (from the article):
Gen Z is the nation’s least religious generation, with about a third having no religion — about the same proportion as among millennials — compared with 23%, 17% and 11% among, respectively, Generation X, baby boomers and the Silent Generation.
and this:
The data show that religious younger Americans are more than twice as likely to do community work as their nonreligious Gen Z counterparts. Half of religious Gen Zers report volunteering in the community often or very often, compared to 30% of slightly religious Gen Zers and just 21% of not religious Gen Zers.
Being involved with community groups — such as sports or social clubs — shows an even bigger difference between the very religious and not religious, with 46% of the very religious regularly being part of community groups, compared to just 16 % of those who are not religious.
As for charitable donations, the same pattern emerges once again, with fully half of very religious Gen Zers contributing often or very often, while 29% of slightly religious and just 17% of nonreligious Gen Zers do the same.
The article as a whole seems to paint a rather dismal portrait of what is to come unless more younger people come to Christ and/or participate in religious activity of some sort that promotes community values of charity/giving beyond one’s self.
Regards,
MG
The survey does point out that rather interesting ‘factoid’.
Do you believe this statistical inference to have any meaning in the real world?
I look at things from both an individual point of view…looking at you as an individual…and looking at things from a larger perspective, such as factoids in a survey.
But I’m not judging YOU as a person. You may very well be living a ‘Christian Life’ without being a Christian. Loving one’s neighbor as themselves, serving others with caring love and compassion, etc.
I’m sure there are many secular folks that make charitable contributions.
Regards,
MG
Interestingly, looking at the list of the largest philanthropic donors in the US for last year, there seems to be a trend of being non-religious. Incidentally, the top individual (who has self-described as "agnostic/atheist") gave over 5x what the entire LDS Church did.
A single secularist gave over 5x more than the entirety of the Lord's one and only true church. Maybe Jesus came back in disguise?
I would suggest, if you want to make an effective point, check your sources. your whole point you wished to make to start this thread is nonsense due to your use of terrible sources.
As I said earlier, I am totally open to other sources of statistical information.
Surveys and statistics are meant to show a ‘slice’ and general trends within a group/population. To open up ONE window that then gives a certain vista/view. Conversation can then take place. Viewpoints can be expressed.
If you post survey results that have contrary conclusions and/or viewpoints other than the three or four I linked to in the first posts of this thread, go for it.
As it is, I think the conversation has been interesting and even productive. It’s caused me to think, and I hope that is the case with others including those not in the conversation.
Mackenzie Scott has given away ~$14B in just a few years.
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
After 10 pages, here's what I'm getting, mostly from the religionist side - simplified, of course:
there's a growing problem in society that would be fixed if more younger people come to Christ and/or participate in religious activity of some sort that promotes community values of charity/giving beyond one’s self
here are some examples of how one religious individual has promoted community values of charity/giving beyond one’s self
that religious person would likely have done the same if he had not been religious
however, the examples that people see (the "fruits", if you like) of religion seem to be putting people off religion
somehow, all of this is the fault of the non-religious
anyway, non-religious people are not as good as religious people, because non-religious people don't have fear of god to keep them in line
Truth mixed in with fiction and/or soundbites. This is often the course taken when someone wants to carry a point without really getting into the meat of things.
First bullet point: true
Second: OK
Third: Probably, but it’s difficult to know. And over a generation or two it becomes even more difficult to ascertain.
Fourth: that’s a mixed bag. Institutional structures have steadily been taking a beating. Bad actors have not helped. But true principles contained within religious systems are then thrown out with the bathwater. Secularism takes its place. It then becomes a question of ‘fruits’ over the long haul between the principles at the core of religion or the fruits of philosophical systems of belief that take God out of the picture.
Fifth: that’s more complicated than a simple sentence/soundbite. The fault can be spread around.
Sixth: this also becomes rather more complicated/complex than a simple soundbite. For one thing, the “fear of God” may mean something different to a nonbeliever than a believer. And then among believers there will also be differing viewpoints on the same. Then we have to define ‘good’. That becomes a mixed bag too.
But I understand that this list is what ONE person is getting from the Deseret News article and the ensuing conversation. All views are of course welcome.
The point of the article is that we ALL ought to have some concern about whether or not we’re heading in the ‘right’ direction as far as civil society is concerned. Whether or not GenZ has a certain trajectory rather and/or over another. And the definition of ‘right’ is going to vary on whether or not one is neoliberal, neomarxist, libertarian, conservative, green activist, atheist, Christian/religionist of another stripe…and the list goes on.
Regards,
MG
Truth mixed in with fiction and/or soundbites.
"The point of the article is that we ALL ought to have some concern ...", yet your subject states that "Secular folks should worry", as if non-secular folks should not.
I was clear that what I wrote was a simplified version of my impressions of 10 pages of material. Given that, it seems to me a bit petty of you to imply that I want to "carry a point without really getting into the meat of things". Of course everything is more complex than a 6-bullet simplified statement of what I'm seeing - how could it not be?
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GenZ seems to not have issues, at least in some respects (especially along the cultural spectrum), in letting and even forcing the government (NGO pressures, lobbying efforts, think tanks, etc.) to bend and then dictate their liberal and neomarxist views upon the rest of the nation.
No idea what you're talking about. Please list some these "liberal and neo-Marxist views" you're so afraid of.
Sure you do. Unless you’re in a bubble. Which is possible I suppose.
As I said earlier, I am totally open to other sources of statistical information.
Surveys and statistics are meant to show a ‘slice’ and general trends within a group/population. To open up ONE window that then gives a certain vista/view. Conversation can then take place. Viewpoints can be expressed.
If you post survey results that have contrary conclusions and/or viewpoints other than the three or four I linked to in the first posts of this thread, go for it.
3 or 4 what? I found one survey based on your OP, and I pointed out how it does not in any way suggest what you or Desnews or that other article are saying.
As it is, I think the conversation has been interesting and even productive. It’s caused me to think, and I hope that is the case with others including those not in the conversation.
Regards,
MG
That's fine. Still, after having pointed out to you the failure of using the one survey to say something it does not say then jump to another survey that can't possibly be taken seriously, one must wonder what your point is. If you don't have one. Fine by me.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
I think that is your point. Here is your opening post:
The survey does point out that rather interesting ‘factoid’.
Do you believe this statistical inference to have any meaning in the real world?
I look at things from both an individual point of view…looking at you as an individual…and looking at things from a larger perspective, such as factoids in a survey.
But I’m not judging YOU as a person. You may very well be living a ‘Christian Life’ without being a Christian. Loving one’s neighbor as themselves, serving others with caring love and compassion, etc.
You are the final arbiter of that, not me.
Regards,
MG
I wonder why people get irritated with you ... and thanks for not automatically condemning me. I can now hold my head high over the weekend.
Anyway, may I suggest that you are the blind one in this thread? Have you ever considered this?
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
Of course everything is more complex than a 6-bullet simplified statement of what I'm seeing - how could it not be?
Thank you for this admission.
Regards,
MG
I suppose you have to try to score a point whenever you can, and be seen to do so.
But really? You count that as an "admission", as if it were something that I'm only now conceding as a result of your comment?
Every time that you write something that is not 100% complete, should I insist that you "admit" that everything is more complex than you say, even if you stated upfront that your intention was to created a simplified version?
Like I said, seems rather petty to me.
By the way, your comment is a rather simplified version of the truth - will you admit that?
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