Secular folks should worry.

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malkie
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by malkie »

Morley wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:11 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:32 am
I am a science guy.
If you were a 'science guy,' you wouldn't write this:
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:32 am
But a study that is strictly science based (language and meaning) in its formulation and presented by a secular organization (at least to my knowledge) is going to run the risk of implicit bias.
It strikes me as an example of "if you're not with us then you are - by definition - against us".

Science done Muhlestein-style is acceptable. All else is suspect.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected.
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MG 2.0
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

Morley wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:11 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:32 am
I am a science guy.
If you were a 'science guy,' you wouldn't write this:
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:32 am
But a study that is strictly science based (language and meaning) in its formulation and presented by a secular organization (at least to my knowledge) is going to run the risk of implicit bias.
But I am. And I did write what I did. And I stand by it.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

malkie wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:14 am
Morley wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:11 am


If you were a 'science guy,' you wouldn't write this:

It strikes me as an example of "if you're not with us then you are - by definition - against us".

Science done Muhlestein-style is acceptable. All else is suspect.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected.
It goes both ways, doesn’t it? Of course we might expect that the religious and/or non religious inclinations are going to have some effect/impact on research and even the results.

It’s human nature. Dressed up in academic robes.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:04 am
doesn't matter who taught it if its in your heart.
No argument with that.

Regards,
MG
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:51 am
Not being able to look at how the study was carried out, however, is problematic.
Most national surveys like the one you want to understand ‘how it was carried out’ are:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Social_Survey

Surveys typically gather demographic data.

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Morley
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Morley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:42 pm

Generally I am on board with PEW research giving fairly trustworthy results with little bias.

Generally I am on board with much of what I see and hear on FOX News say compared with MSNBC.

I’ve listened to enough of Jordan Peterson to know that he is a respected intellectual who’s views I have generally agree with.

If you’ve listened much to Jordan Peterson or listened to FOX news you will understand that the ‘cultural divide’ is real and has been in motion for a number of years now. In my mind there’s really not much up for discussion on that front.

I suppose that the one thing that I see as problematic is the now popular presentation of ‘victims’ and perpetrators of victimhood and all that this entails. The younger people have now been indoctrinated with ideas that government is the answer to society’s problems and that reparations are to be made to ‘victims’ even when the so called ‘perpetrators’ are not even perpetrators. The traditional values of personal responsibility are then warped and turned on its head.

Government and governmental edicts become the norm. Almost religious in its intensity and application to the populace who are slowly becoming like sheep.

In order for civil society to exist different and divergent views need to be expressed. The Twitter Files are showing that governmental/media conglomerate influence is impacting the views and opinions of those that ought to be free to make fair and balanced decisions. The universities, media, and government entities have been and are moving in the direction of Big Brother controlling and disseminating information.

That is a danger to civil society.

I'm waiting for you to cut to the chase and repost this:
MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:58 pm

Image
Of course, you might want to label Gen Z as one of the figures depicted as burning Liberty at the stake.
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malkie
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by malkie »

Government and governmental edicts become the norm. Almost religious in its intensity and application to the populace who are slowly becoming like sheep.
We're talking about Florida here, right?

And all of the other places where books are being banned, etc.
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Morley
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Morley »

malkie wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:00 pm
Government and governmental edicts become the norm. Almost religious in its intensity and application to the populace who are slowly becoming like sheep.
We're talking about Florida here, right?

And all of the other places where books are being banned, etc.
I dunno, malkie. Maybe he's referring to state governments trying to regulate every woman's reproductive choices. I agree, though. So much governmental overreach.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:42 pm

I’ve listened to enough of Jordan Peterson to know that he is a respected intellectual who’s views I have generally agree with.

If you’ve listened much to Jordan Peterson or listened to FOX news you will understand that the ‘cultural divide’ is real and has been in motion for a number of years now. In my mind there’s really not much up for discussion on that front.

I suppose that the one thing that I see as problematic is the now popular presentation of ‘victims’ and perpetrators of victimhood and all that this entails. The younger people have now been indoctrinated with ideas that government is the answer to society’s problems and that reparations are to be made to ‘victims’ even when the so called ‘perpetrators’ are not even perpetrators. The traditional values of personal responsibility are then warped and turned on its head.
What’s amazing to me is the utter lack of self-awareness demonstrated in these paragraphs. MG 2.0 and his fellow travelers embody “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

The entire right wing culture warrior movement is based on what MG 2.0 describes as perpetuation of victims. Victim mentality is the drug that Rush Limbaugh mainlined into the right, and that right wing media has continued to sell.

You are a victim of political correctness
You are a victim of reverse racism
You are a victim of cancel culture
You are a victim of critical race theory
You are a victim of radical feminism
You are a victim of George Soros
You are a victim of drag queens
You are a victim of cultural Marxism
You are a victim of liberalism
You are a victim of progressivism
You are a victim of wokeness
You are a victim of government

Who is a prominent example of this victim mentality? Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson turned victimhood into an entire career.

If you can see the blatant contradiction, it’s breathtaking. But you have to allow yourself to look.
he/him
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Nimrod
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Nimrod »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:14 pm
Fracturing may be the result. Time will tell.

Or maybe we’ll all learn to just get along! But I don’t see that happening any time soon with such divergent views concerning God and obedience to His commandments and views that are basically made up on the fly by those that think they have it all figured out. 🤓

Regards,
MG
What an excellent description of what top Mormon leaders have been doing, beginning with Joseph Smith and continuing right down to today.
Apologists try to shill an explanation to questioning members as though science and reason really explain and buttress their professed faith. It [sic] does not. By definition, faith is the antithesis of science and reason. Apologetics is a further deception by faith peddlers to keep power and influence.
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