Secular folks should worry.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

What specific schools were these books pulled out of? I’m a little cagey these days with regard to conservative claims because they’ve been caught lying so often. I’m not saying those books weren’t in schools, but I’d like some proof so we can be sure we’re not being manipulated.

- Doc

I’ll give you a ‘self starter’ and then ask that you exercise some initiative and go on from there.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/11/02/ ... t-answers/

From the article:

Not only do parents have no idea what their children happen to pick up and read during a school day, but kids aren’t even allowed to bring books out of the classroom.

And even though the books aren’t part of the curriculum, a board member at the latest October meeting pointed out that nothing prevents a teacher from selecting one of the books to include in their lesson plans, even though it’s not part of district-mandated curriculum.

https://www.toddstarnes.com/education/f ... n-library/

Just a couple of quick hits doing a search. I’ll leave it you to conduct some more research and return and report.

Regards,
MG

Are you retarded? We’re talking about schools in Florida and you link to an article about Loudon county, Virginia. Again.

The Daily Signal article MG linked doesn’t name any schools, school districts, nor officials who approved this material.

And

What specific schools were these books pulled out of? I’m a little cagey these days with regard to conservative claims because they’ve been caught lying so often. I’m not saying those books weren’t in schools, but I’d like some proof so we can be sure we’re not being manipulated.

Your second link has this:

A Florida school board member said she was "disgusted" by the pornographic books available to kids and described a race against time to remove them before the start of the 2022-2023 school year.

Which has an embedded link to supposed porno books in South Dakota. Like. She’s outraged about books in South Dakota.

-_-

The other books they claim were in the district, but again they don’t state what schools housed them and who authorized their use. The language they’re using, and the misleading link to a supposed SD school makes me skeptical of their claims with regard to schools in Florida.

So. Again. Instead of being a lazy crap, since you’re making this claim, provide definitive proof this is actually happening instead of just taking their word for it. For example, the list of 75 books. What are they, and what school libraries are housing them right now?

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

4. You portray these “secularists” as an existential threat to civil society.

Everything we’ve been discussing has to do with ‘absence of belief in God’. Thus, shrink wrapping it all into a tidy little package that no one will argue about.

GenZ, if the Deseret News study has any merit, shows that this has been taking place over the last 50 years or so.

Remember John Lennon and Imagine?

The current generation is showing a continued shift in secularistic belief, that is…so that we’re being clear enough for some folks…absence of belief God. Some will say this makes no real difference. Things will continue to evolve and do so in a positive way rather than in a negative way.

That’s where the concern is for those that actually manifest any concern. No one here!

Now, like the word ‘civility’, I will hazard a guess that there will be those that now want to define what ‘positive’ and ‘negative’ mean. Or redefine them from traditional usage.

Oh, by the way, thanks Doc for making some us a bit uncomfortable by posting some of the same material that has been presented to many school boards and been available to innocent children in many schools. It made them uncomfortable too. And they knew this crap was already in the schools.

Does absence of belief in God…secularism…lead to bad judgment and bad decision making like what we’ve been observing? Or are these folks allowing pornography the in schools simply religious zealots.

Regards,
MG

That’s the sleight of hand. We use isms to describe beliefs or values or worldview that people have in common. We can discuss the beliefs and values that Mormons or Christian’s or conservatives out liberals or isolationists or internationalists or nudists have in common. We can compare them, contrast them, debate them.

But your label “secularist” doesn’t say anything about what secularists believe. It’s an empty, meaningless label that you use as a dumping ground for all the things you hate. Treating “doesn’t believe in God” as an ism is like treating not collecting stamps as a hobby.

But I think we have made progress. Now that you’ve defined “secularist” as anyone who doesn’t believe in God, we really are down to obvious bigotry. If I were to portray “theists” as existential threat to civil society and hold up theist child abusers as evidence, you’d recognize anti-religious bigotry right away and you would be right in calling me out for it.” What you are doing is exactly the religious bigotry that nonbelievers have been subjected to for years.

Without the fancy wrapper, the bigotry is obvious.

[MG 2.0]

I think I explained, in painstaking detail, why I think it’s certainly possible that librarians have included inappropriate books in a library. If or when it happens, it’s a problem that should be addressed.

What it isn’t is an existential crisis on which hangs the future of civil society.

Res Ipsa, I have enjoyed our back and forth. Thank you for jumping in.

I am happy to see that you, along with malkie, are open to removing books from public schools if they are found to be pornographic or inappropriate for young readers. And yes, I am agreed that there needs to be a general consensus by concerned parents before action is taken. I do think, however, that parents should have the final say, not school boards or library associations.

I do think that what is happening now does show an indication of some of the issues coming down the pike that could result in significant changes in society. Some not for the better. That’s why we need to vigilant and discerning and come to certain compromises along the way so that civility rules the day.

The problem is, however, that some of the forces that would change society into something we wouldn’t have even fathomed a few decades ago have become powerful through the use of social networks and governmental groups to change the course of our social fabric.

Trans beauty pageants for children? C’mon. What’s next?

I’m happy to know that there are some folks that believe in the absence of any god and yet have the light within them that says, “Wrong is wrong”.

LDS folks would call that the Light of Christ. Secular folks (yes, I will continue to use that word) would call that ‘conscience’.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

But your label “secularist” doesn’t say anything about what secularists believe.

This might be a good time for you to tell us what you DO believe and whether or not you are or are not a secularist.

I, for one, don’t actually know what your answer will be…with all the ‘fuzziness’ you’ve thrown in, but please, tell us what you believe and what ‘label’ would most apply to you as a person.

You seem to have taken some umbrage in the way I’ve been communicating and implying…still…that I am a bigot and hate others. Maybe we will not be able to get past that false perception that you have.

Oh well.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

We’re talking about schools in Florida and you link to an article about Loudon county, Virginia.
- Doc

Read the thread. I have been referring to Florida, Virginia, and schools around the nation. Virginia matters too.

You don’t need to get all huffy. You were actually being somewhat civil there for a bit. I wondered if a new and better you had stepped in. Apparently not.

You don’t HAVE to use the word ‘retarded’. It’s beneath you and your Hindu beliefs I would think.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

…provide definitive proof this is actually happening instead of just taking their word for it. For example, the list of 75 books. What are they, and what school libraries are housing them right now?

- Doc

Ok, I’m going to be patient and understanding rather than acting like a _______.

Go to your search bar and type in (it doesn’t take much effort):

What specific schools have pornographic books?

You will then have a whole slew of ‘hits’. Look at them and then decide if you trust any of the sources and/or research.

Return and report.

You’re getting all worked up there brother.

I cut out the language from your posts. I hope you don’t report me for censoring.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

We’re talking about schools in Florida and you link to an article about Loudon county, Virginia.
- Doc

Read the thread. I have been referring to Florida, Virginia, and schools around the nation. Virginia matters too.

You don’t need to get all huffy. You were actually being somewhat civil there for a bit. I wondered if a new and better you had stepped in. Apparently not.

You don’t HAVE to use the word ‘retarded’. It’s beneath you and your Hindu beliefs I would think.

Regards,
MG

Do you ever stop lying?

https://www.discussmormonism.com/viewto ... 6#p2828216

This is why it’s pointless to have a dialogue with MG. He’ll just lie about what he said, or because he’s so trollish he can’t remember what he said and to whom, and when someone holds him to his own words he just shifts the goalposts.

damned Mormons.

- Doc

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

…provide definitive proof this is actually happening instead of just taking their word for it. For example, the list of 75 books. What are they, and what school libraries are housing them right now?

- Doc

Ok, I’m going to be patient and understanding rather than acting like a _______.

Go to your search bar and type in (it doesn’t take much effort):

What specific schools have pornographic books?

You will then have a whole slew of ‘hits’. Look at them and then decide if you trust any of the sources and/or research.

Return and report.

You’re getting all worked up there brother.

I cut out the language from your posts. I hope you don’t report me for censoring.

Regards,
MG

Note MG makes an assertion, and then wants us to do the legwork for him. What an absolute mongrel.

- Doc

[MG 2.0]

MG,

Do you agree with "Woke Busting" school libraries?

I think that both Harlow and the Woke Busters need to show up at their local school board meetings and bring/show evidence one way or the other that proves their case and then let other parents have time to assimilate and check out the pros and cons of each witness. Then everyone involved should gather together again and come to an understanding face to face.

This online social media back and forth without any real fact checking is a dangerous game of sourcing and of misunderstanding/misinformation.

Is Harlow telling the complete truth? Is he leaving out important information that might lessen his argument. Do you know one way or the other for a fact?

This a problem. Social media back and forth, shadow banning and the like.

Thanks for posting this, honor, but do you really want or expect us to take this person/account seriously as a matter of fact?

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

Since the OP argued that a particular generation was threatening civil society, I suggest we play a little game of look in the mirror.

Before I share a link and excerpts I think it's worth repeating that civil society references the community identity and structure that is connected to but different from the political and economic systems of a given society. But they are very much interwoven. Decisions that affect economic opportunity, that reflect political view that advantage or disadvantage groups within a society affect "civil society".

So, for consideration I offer this article from Business News that posits the baby boomer generation is the most selfish generation in America that has had lasting impacts on society and the world.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-bab ... on-2016-11



"In 1962, we were laying down the foundations of prosperity. About 32 cents of every federal dollar, excluding interest payments, was spent on investments, only 14 percent on entitlements. In the mid-70s the lines crossed. Today we spend less than 15 cents on investment and 46 cents on entitlements. And it gets worse. By 2030, when the last of us boomers have surged onto the Social Security rolls, entitlements will consume 61 cents of every federal dollar, starving our already neglected investment and leaving us, in the words of the study, with 'a less-skilled work force, lower rates of job creation, and an infrastructure unfit for a 21st-century economy.'"

Neoclassical economic theory is behind all of this. It was behind the draconian budget cuts of the Reagan administration that also came with tax cuts for the wealthy. It was behind the Bush tax cuts, too. It was also behind Clinton-era banking deregulation, namely the end of the Glass-Steagall Act, which sowed the seeds of the financial crisis. It is behind the growing wealth gap that has dragged our country down — politically and economically — for decades.

Blame shifting to the role of religion in society puts it into the metaphysical while ignoring the all too physical reality where the self-interest and selfishness of a generation that has left a decaying social order behind they don't want to own. So they blame the younger generations for their own bad management choices.