Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

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Re: Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

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MR. QUESTION wrote:
Mr. Shulem,

Is it not possible that when Egyptus discovered the land under water that she was referring to a civilization which had previously inhabited the land and that those people were original Negroes (a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people) who were her ancestors called the children of Canaan, said to have existed in the Book of Moses (7:8) prior to the flood?

It’s plausible that Egyptus was simply returning to her Egyptian homeland to inherit the land of Canaan!

Abraham 1:24 wrote:“When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.”
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Re: Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

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MR. QUESTION wrote:
Mr. Shulem,

Is it not possible that when Egyptus discovered the land under water that she was referring to a civilization which had previously inhabited the land and that those people were original Negroes (a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people) who were her ancestors called the children of Canaan, said to have existed in the Book of Moses (7:8) prior to the flood?

It’s plausible that Egyptus was simply returning to her Egyptian homeland to inherit the land of Canaan!

Mr. Question,

Thank you for your input. You should know that the wild idea of Egyptus returning to her pre-flood homeland of “Egypt” cannot possibly be reconciled by the revelations, doctrines, and biblical timelines embraced by Joseph Smith. There is the unsurmountable problem of exceeding the chronological timeline based on the Jewish Bible which is incorporated into Mormon scripture and doctrine. I remind you that the biblical flood is dated to about 2400 BC. It is impossible to dismiss and ignore that date as a foundational event for the biblical story.

Egyptology is able to establish a chronological timeline dating from the beginning of dynastic Egypt all the way down into the New Kingdom and beyond. Allow me to present the The Abydos King List in the Hall of Ancestors from the Temple of Seti I, dating from 3000 - 1278 BC.

The Abydos King List wrote: 1. Meni (established one)
2. Teti
3. Iti (the sovereign)
4. Ita (the sovereign vulture)
5. Djaty (two estates)
6. Mer-ba-pen
7. Semsem (priest of priests or Ptah priest)
8. Qebh (hawk headed god of the south)
9. Mdw-ti-umer (staff, pestle and chisel)
10. Ka-kau (soul of bulls)
11. Khnum-netjer-n (sacred ram)
12. Uadj-nes
13. Sen-di or Sen-dji (feared one)
14. Dja-dja-tepy (the head chief)
15. Neb-ka (lord of the soul)
16. Djeser-za (sacred protection)
17. Teti
18. Z-djes (I am my own man)
19. Nefer-ka-re (good soul of Re)
20. Snefru
21. Khufu
22. Djedef-re
23. Khaf-re
24. Men-kau-re
25. Shep-ses-kaf
26. User-kaf
27. Sahu-re
28. Kakai (Neferirkare)
29. Nefer-ef-re
30. Niuser-re (Ini)
31. Men-kau-hor (Kaiu)
32. Djed-ka-re (Isesi)
33. Unas
34. Teti
35. User-ka-re
36. Mery-re (Pepi I)
37. Meren-re
38. Nefer-ka-re (Pepi II)
39. Meren-zam-saf
40. Neter-ka-re
41. Men-ka-re
42. Nefer-ka-re
43. Nefer-ka-neby
44. Djed-ka-maa-re (king of herdsman)
45. Nefer-ka-khendu-re
46. Meren-hor
47. Snefer-ka
48. Ne-ka-re
49. Nefer-kat-ru-re
50. Nefer-ka-hor
51. Nefer-ka-pepy-seneb-re
52. Nefer-ka-annu-re
53. Nefer-kau-re?
54. Nefer-kau-re
55. Nefer-kau-hor
56. Nefer-ir-ka-re
57. Neb-medoo-re (Mentuhotep I)
58. Sankh-ka-re (Mentuhotep II)
59. Sehotep-ib-re (Amenemhat I)
60. Kheper-ka-re (Senusret I)
61. Neb-kau-re (Amenemhat II)
62. Kha-kheper-re (Senusret II)
63. Kha-kau-re (Senusret III)
64. Nemaat-re (Amenemhat III)
65. Maa-kheru-re
66. Neb-pehty-re (Amose I)
67. Djeser-ka-re (Amenhotep I)
68. Aa-kheper-ka-re (Tuthmose I)
69. Aa-kheper-en-re (Tuthmose II)
70. Men-kheper-re (Tuthmose III)
71. Aa-kheperu-re (Amenhotep II)
72. Men-kheperu-re (Tuthmose IV)
73. Neb-maat-re (Amenhotep III)
74. Djeser-kheperu-re Setep-en-re (Horemheb)
75. Men-pehty-re (Ramesses I)
76. Men-maat-re (Seti I)

Any attempt to associate the land of Egypt discovered by Egyptus as her native homeland prior to the flood has no merit and tramples over the biblical timeline. It fails to embrace Smith’s revelation of the earth and the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence. The account given in Abraham chapter one about the land (Egypt) being discovered under water refers to raw LAND and makes no reference or allusion to former inhabitants or a preexisting civilization. Unlike the account described in the Book of Abraham, here are examples in the Book of Mormon wherein a land that was discovered was previously peopled by former inhabitants:

Mosiah 8:8 wrote:And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with  bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel.
Alma 22:30 wrote:And it bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, it being so far northward that it came into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed, of whose  bones we have spoken, which was discovered by the  people of Zarahemla, it being the place of their first landing.
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2300 BC

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General Conference, October 1947, PRESIDENT GEORGE F. RICHARDS, President of the Council of the Twelve Apostles wrote:
The penalty inflicted upon them was, in part, that of drowning by a flood that covered the whole earth. The death penalty tells but a small part of the story of what befell them on account of their wickedness. They were confined in a spirit prison for, according to the Bible chronology, more than 2,300 years. The nature of this imprisonment is explained by the Prophet Alma as follows:

“Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.”

This period of 2,300 years is between the time of the flood and the death of the Savior, when he went and visited them.

PRESIDENT GEORGE F. RICHARDS, President of the Council of the Twelve Apostles

QUESTION: How does ancient Egypt prior to that period come into play in chapter one of the Book of Abraham?

John Gee?
Kerry Muhlestein?
Stephen Smoot?

Anybody?
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Re: 2300 BC

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General Conference, October 1947, PRESIDENT GEORGE F. RICHARDS, President of the Council of the Twelve Apostles wrote:
The penalty inflicted upon them was, in part, that of drowning by a flood that covered the whole earth. The death penalty tells but a small part of the story of what befell them on account of their wickedness. They were confined in a spirit prison for, according to the Bible chronology, more than 2,300 years. The nature of this imprisonment is explained by the Prophet Alma as follows:

<snip>

This period of 2,300 years is between the time of the flood and the death of the Savior, when he went and visited them.

I find it curious that the very next speaker to follow President Richards of the Quorum of the Twelve is none other than a recently called member of the seventy who was called to that position a year prior -- elder Bruce R. McConkie who pays direct reference to President Richards’s talk and confirms that what he spoke was scriptural revelation revealed by the Holy Ghost:

General Conference, October 1947, ELDER BRUCE R. McCONKIE, Of the First Council of the Seventy wrote:
Every person in this Church is entitled to know and is expected to know by the revelations of the Holy Ghost to his soul that these things are true; and if he knows them, then, in my judgment he should have no desire in his heart to do anything in this world except hearken to the counsel of the living oracles and put his house in order and prepare himself for the glory and honor and salvation of which President Richards has just spoken.

<snip>

He told his early elders that whatever they spoke when moved upon by the Holy Ghost was scripture, that it was the mind of the Lord the will of the Lord, the word of the Lord, the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation There will never be a time when the canon of scripture will be full. Just as long as there are elders in this kingdom to bear inspired witness of Christ, there will be more scripture. There has been more scripture given from this pulpit during the course of this conference, and it is as much the mind and will of the Lord as any recorded in the standard works.

<snip>

There is nothing about the Church, there is no doctrine, no procedure or no ordinance, no law or principle, that is not in complete harmony with the scriptures and with reason. We can establish that everything we have is reasonable and scriptural and that we are in whole accord with the identical Church of Christ that was set up two thousand years ago.
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The Artful Dodger tells a whopper!

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Daniel C. Peterson, FAIR Mormon Conference, August 8, 2014 wrote:Unas or Wenis, for example, was the last king of the fifth dynasty, around 2300 B.C., and his pyramid still stands at Saqqara, south of modern Cairo.

Video timestamp

The Book of Abraham states that the kings of Egypt were descended from the loins of Ham via Egyptus and Pharaoh, the first king of Egypt. But according to Joseph Smith and biblical chronology, it’s impossible for the last king of the Fifth Dynasty to have built a pyramid at that date (2300 BC) because based on Smith’s timeline, Unis hadn’t yet been born!

Peterson knows this. And yet he (like John Gee) use misinformation to appropriate a false connection between the Book of Abraham and conventional Egyptology. This is a classic example of Mormon apologetic lying. It also goes to show how Mormons will throw Joseph Smith under the bus in order to save his Book of Abraham.

Wikipedia wrote:Unas or Wenis was a pharaoh, the ninth and last ruler of the Fifth Dynasty of Egypt during the Old Kingdom. Unas reigned for 15 to 30 years in the mid-24th century BC (circa 2345–2315 BC), succeeding Djedkare Isesi, who might have been his father.
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The Pyramid Builders

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Church scholars recognize that pyramid building in the ancient Egyptian civilization goes back a long way in the historical timeline. In fact, they are well aware that it greatly exceeds the 2,400 BC mark of Noah’s flood as chronicled in the Jewish Bible. The first pyramid of significance was the Pyramid of Djoser built in the 2600’s BC and towered over the earlier Mastabas built by early dynastic kings. Equally, church scholars are aware that it exceeds Joseph Smith’s accounting of *when* the Egyptian civilization was born as given in the Book of Abraham -- Ham via Egyptus & her son Pharaoh.

Bible Dictionary of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints wrote:
Egypt

This country was known to the Hebrews as Mizraim. The origin of the Greek name by which we call it is uncertain. The kingdom of Egypt was formed by the union under a single sovereign, the Pharaoh (“Great House”), of a number of districts, often divided by local jealousies and by differences of religious belief. The policy of the Pharaohs was to overcome these forces of disunion by a well-organized central administration and by a single state religion that should provide for the worship of all the various local deities. Church and state were closely knit together, and the priests formed a most influential class and a chief stay of the throne (Gen. 47:22). The country was rich and prosperous, and great public works were executed, including canals for irrigation, strong cities for defense, and royal monuments, especially tombs and temples, which are still among the wonders of the world. The state religion was much occupied with thoughts of the life after death, and Osiris, the god of the dead, is the most prominent of all the Egyptian deities. The safety of the soul after death was believed to depend on the care taken of the dead body. Hence the practice of embalming and the pains spent on providing safe and splendid tombs. The great pyramids are the tombs of early kings belonging to what is generally called the Old Empire. The pyramid builders, who reigned at Memphis at least 3,000 years before Christ, were followed by a series of princes who reigned in Thebes.

Clearly, the forked tongue of church scholars proves their guilt in presenting history with a double-tongued mouth in which the Church is guilty of lying! This has been going on for a long time and I’m now calling out the Church and pointing my finger straight in the face of the Church that has been telling these lies for many years hoping not to get caught. Egyptologists Gee & Muhlestein are equally guilty of maintaining this coverup. But the Backyard Professor is going to sound it out long and loud on the housetop! Every ear will hear it and the apologists and the whole Church will shudder!

And now, for a special treat to reward those who are reading this thread and following along. I want to add something of significance regarding the anachronism of the word Pharaoh being used wrongly in the Book of Abraham. This point of contention has been argued but all non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the word Pharaoh used in the Book of Abraham is an anachronism. So, I feel this point that I now raise is highly germane to this thread.

Most everyone reading this thread knows that the word Pharaoh means literally “Great House” as in the physical plan of a house or a building in which a person or family resides. The name title of Pharaoh was given to kings much later in dynastic Egypt and referenced the king’s palace in which he lived, that palace was GREAT and spacious.

In consideration to Egyptus who named her son “Pharaoh,” we must ask ourselves *why* would she do that? Were they not nomads wandering away from Mount Ararat to discover the marshy land of the Delta under water in hopes of finding a new home? Why would Egyptus who didn’t even have a proper house in which to reside name her son “GREAT HOUSE?” It makes no sense at all that this wandering woman would name her son with the title of Pharoah=Great House when she didn’t even have a house and neither did her son!

Psyche! Think about that.

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Great House

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Abraham 1:25 wrote:Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh (Great House), the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal. (abt 2,300 BC)

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Great House

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Abraham 1:24 wrote:When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it;

Pharaoh II

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Great House

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Abraham 1:26 wrote: But cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

Pharaoh III

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Re: Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

Post by Moksha »

Besides the LDS dating of Egypt being incorrect, the idea of skin curses is bogus. The idea of skin curses is based on racism rather than a correct understanding of skin coloration. It would be best to jettison this mistaken idea from the LDS scriptures since it will prove even more embarrassing in the future.
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