Secular folks should worry.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

This’ll move the needle for MI exactly 0%.

- Doc

Thank you. That is more information to add to the pile.

Regards,
MG

What pile?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biologic_Institute

The Biologic Institute[a] was a section of the Discovery Institute created to give the organization a facade of conducting biological research with the aim of producing experimental evidence of intelligent design creationism, funded by the Discovery Institute. It claimed offices in Redmond, Washington and laboratories in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle, Washington. Instead Biologic Institute consisted solely of a rented office space in Redmond which is no longer in use for several years (since at least 2015) although the web domain is still renewed. The 'research' listed for the group consists mainly of random and often irrelevant works by Intelligent Design supporters going back to their graduate school years. Several are notably articles, books or internally published content from Discovery's 'BioComplexity' journal which is not a legitimate scientific journal.

The original Discovery Institute plan laid out in the Wedge Document, leaked in 1999, called for Douglas Axe, the current Biologic Institute director, senior researcher and spokesman, to head up a research effort in support of intelligent design. However, the Discovery Institute did not begin executing this part of the Wedge Strategy plan until 2005.

What is the wedge document?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

So, Mental, are you a dupe, a moron, or both?

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

Here is a link to the wedge document, the secret plan of the portion of the Discovery Institute that pretends to be an advocate for science. https://ncse.ngo/files/pub/creationism/ ... rategy.pdf

Reading this document tells you everything you need to know about the organization. Its goals are expressly pro-religion and anti science. Note that the document expressly talked about Axe as part of the strategy. He was part of the leading portion of the wedge.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Here is a link to the wedge document, the secret plan of the portion of the Discovery Institute that pretends to be an advocate for science. https://ncse.ngo/files/pub/creationism/ ... rategy.pdf

Reading this document tells you everything you need to know about the organization. Its goals are expressly pro-religion and anti science. Note that the document expressly talked about Axe as part of the strategy. He was part of the leading portion of the wedge.

Everyone should read that. It’s wild, and disconcerting with regard to how many inroads they’ve been able to make across the board. Phases I, II, and III are especially pernicious in their deliberateness. The fascism they’re attempting to reintroduce into our world is founded on deceit, and the promulgation of this deceit until the Big Lie is accepted as truth.

Dupes like MI gleefully push it as open-mindedness.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

Here is a link to the wedge document, the secret plan of the portion of the Discovery Institute that pretends to be an advocate for science. https://ncse.ngo/files/pub/creationism/ ... rategy.pdf

Reading this document tells you everything you need to know about the organization. Its goals are expressly pro-religion and anti science. Note that the document expressly talked about Axe as part of the strategy. He was part of the leading portion of the wedge.

Everyone should read that. It’s wild, and disconcerting with regard to how many inroads they’ve been able to make across the board. Phases I, II, and III are especially pernicious in their deliberateness. The fascism they’re attempting to reintroduce into our world is founded on deceit, and the promulgation of this deceit u til the Big Lie is accepted as truth.

Dupes like MI gleefully push it as open-mindedness.

- Doc

Well, that’s one of many ironies, isn’t it. On the issues of how the earth was created and how life on earth began, MG 2.0 is as minded as it gets — he simply assumes that both were created by a creator God. No amount of evidence will persuade him otherwise. Yet, he demands to have his assumption taught in science class because … open mindedness.

[MG 2.0]

On the issues of how the earth was created and how life on earth began, MG 2.0 is as minded as it gets — he simply assumes that both were created by a creator God. No amount of evidence will persuade him otherwise. Yet, he demands to have his assumption taught in science class because … open mindedness.

I think the evidence supports the fact that an intelligence/mind is in and through all things and orchestrated the beginnings of our ‘pale blue dot’.

I’ve already stated some of those reasons/evidence.

I suppose we may be talking past each other again. This may be a good place to end the thread if all parties are amenable. We’ve said what we’ve wanted to say and the record is here for both sides.

Let’s call it a day…if you will/want.

Thanks again for the participation. I’ve enjoyed the back and forth and presentation of various ideas.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Here is a link to the wedge document, the secret plan of the portion of the Discovery Institute that pretends to be an advocate for science. https://ncse.ngo/files/pub/creationism/ ... rategy.pdf

Reading this document tells you everything you need to know about the organization. Its goals are expressly pro-religion and anti science. Note that the document expressly talked about Axe as part of the strategy. He was part of the leading portion of the wedge.

Everyone should read that. It’s wild, and disconcerting with regard to how many inroads they’ve been able to make across the board. Phases I, II, and III are especially pernicious in their deliberateness. The fascism they’re attempting to reintroduce into our world is founded on deceit, and the promulgation of this deceit until the Big Lie is accepted as truth.

Dupes like MI gleefully push it as open-mindedness.

- Doc

Wow, that document is bizarre. Science is called materialistic science (another word for real, it seems.) The really bizarre goal though, was 20 year plan to have ID become the "dominant scientific theory." That's quite the oxymoron.

[huckelberry]

Everyone should read that. It’s wild, and disconcerting with regard to how many inroads they’ve been able to make across the board. Phases I, II, and III are especially pernicious in their deliberateness. The fascism they’re attempting to reintroduce into our world is founded on deceit, and the promulgation of this deceit until the Big Lie is accepted as truth.

Dupes like MI gleefully push it as open-mindedness.

- Doc

Wow, that document is bizarre. Science is called materialistic science (another word for real, it seems.) The really bizarre goal though, was 20 year plan to have ID become the "dominant scientific theory." That's quite the oxymoron.

I found that wedge document disturbing. It is clearly a religious evangelizing project not science. I do not see it as having any place in a science class. Perhaps it would have a place in a world religions class. In the wedge document I found the vague waving about of references to the horrors of materialism disturbing. Why should bad stuff be a result of materialism. As a religious person I see the material world as something from God and understanding materialsm better is a window toward God. I feel quite sure that the horrors people sometimes link to materialism such as Stalin's enthusiasm for killing people result from human pride, love of power over others, greed and fear.

A wikapedia article about the wedge document ended with somebody suspecting that the wedge project aims at theocracy. I did not see anything directly about that and I am unsure how tight a definition of theocracy is in mind there. I do not like making that accusation but the broad and paranoid rejection of materialism makes me fear that the theocracy accusation may not be empty. Some say respect for our fellow man comes only from belief in God. I think it comes from a clear search for understanding of ourselves and those around us. Without these the idea of God may harm respect for others or be of little help. Clear understanding of ourselves and others is based upon observation of the real events and careful thought considering how those actions arise and work. This respect for understanding would be both science (informally and formally) and materialism.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

On the issues of how the earth was created and how life on earth began, MG 2.0 is as minded as it gets — he simply assumes that both were created by a creator God. No amount of evidence will persuade him otherwise. Yet, he demands to have his assumption taught in science class because … open mindedness.

I think the evidence supports the fact that an intelligence/mind is in and through all things and orchestrated the beginnings of our ‘pale blue dot’.

I’ve already stated some of those reasons/evidence.

I suppose we may be talking past each other again. This may be a good place to end the thread if all parties are amenable. We’ve said what we’ve wanted to say and the record is here for both sides.

Let’s call it a day…if you will/want.

Thanks again for the participation. I’ve enjoyed the back and forth and presentation of various ideas.

Regards,
MG

You’re talking past others. We’re addressing your blathering. You don’t read. You don’t answer questions. You’re an extremist who just posts testimonials and assertions. You’re on endless loop precisely because you’re determined to remain stupid. Mormon lolcow.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

As I looked through the 1000 name list it appeared to me to have a whole lot of other signatories in various scientific fields besides those folks/areas that you mention in your list.

The question is, out of the 1000 name list, how many of them were not conservative Christians or theists (Moslem etc.) at the time of signing?

Remember, the ID hypothesis is supposed to be value neutral in terms of God or religious beliefs. According to ID, we can confirm humans were designed, but we can't say anything more than that. It's a critical point in order to pretend ID is "scientific" and not just religious dogma. So, when MG says things like:

I think the evidence supports the fact that an intelligence/mind is in and through all things and orchestrated the beginnings of our ‘pale blue dot’.

He's not a great representative of ID. IDer's who know their trade block non-theists from inferring God from the Design hypothesis. For instance, IDers say the designer could have been an advanced alien. Richard Dawkins responds, "okay, then who designed the alien?" According to IDers, that's irrelevant to the fact that the evidence confirms humans were designed. You can't deduce your way from that fact to God.

And so since ID is fundamentally agnostic, according to IDers, how many non-Christian or non-theist scientists accept it?

Bill Dembski's original insight came from SETI. How do you conclude an intelligent mind is behind a signal we pick up on radar? In the same way, our biology can be said to be a "signal" and we look for ways to infer intelligence at work. And so, if you take ID at face value, the way good IDers present it, it's a proper scientific discipline.

And so, how many names on that list are non-Christians or non-theists? Anostic etc..

Let me guess, MG, the percent of non-Christian signatures on the paper is about the same percent as non-Mormons who accept the Book of Mormon is an ancient record?