Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

[Marcus]

Here’s a similar answer from a GA. The more jaded part of me suspects he has given this talk more than once.

CulturalGA Story - A GA resolved a doubting members long list of questions with just three answers....... (self.Mormon)

submitted 2 hours ago by jamesallredHappy Heretic

A GA very recently shared this story in a stake conference.

He asked to visit members homes (in a different stake) who could benefit from the presence of a general authority. Of course the homes offered were those families with someone who was questioning the church.

This particular GA shared that as they came into the home the member shared that he had a list of questions this high (holding his hand at shoulder height). And because of those questions he was no longer participating in the church.
The GA then shared his answers he gave to that member to resolve his doubts. He (the GA) observed that he saw the "light bulb" go on in the doubting members face.
​
What answers did the GA give to resolve the doubts?

Answer #1 - Just believe even when you don't know.

The GA shared the story often repeated in the temple about Adam offering sacrifices and NOT knowing why. He told the doubting member that he just needed to follow the example of Adam and obey the prophet even when he didn't know why.

Answer #2 - I (GA) have unanswered questions too.

The GA told the member that he didn't know a lot of things and had questions too. But he found value in being a member of the church and so the doubting member should too.

Answer #3 - If you feel the spirit or feel good in church settings, then you know you are doing what God wants you to do. Just ignore everything else.

It is all about spiritual affirmation. If you seek and feel the spirit then you don't need to worry about unanswered questions. Feeling the spirit is all you need in this life.
​
At the end of the story the GA said that he saw the "light bulb" go on in this doubting members eyes.
​
There you have it. The amazing answers from a GA to resolve all the difficult questions about church truth claims.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... bers_long/

[Dr Exiled]

He's a Mormon ... and Mormons just believe.

[Dr. Shades]

JohnW:

We can all list a number of completely coherent and logical reasons to NOT believe in Santa Claus. If I nevertheless rejected those reasons and trusted what my parents and classmates had originally told me about him--you know, had faith in Santa Claus--would you praise me or pity me? Why?

[Nimrod]

JohnW:

We can all list a number of completely coherent and logical reasons to NOT believe in Santa Claus. If I nevertheless rejected those reasons and trusted what my parents and classmates had originally told me about him--you know, had faith in Santa Claus--would you praise me or pity me? Why?

Santa's ways are not man's ways. Santa acts in mysterious ways. In due time, Santa will reveal all and it will then make sense. We cannot comprehend Santa competely or how he conducts himself. And thus, we've negated your list, whatever it may include, of "completely coherent and logical reasons to NOT believe in Santa Claus."

[JohnW]

Thank you for your long, thoughtful reply, John. I’m not able to now, but will try to respond, in like manner, in a couple of weeks.

Edit:

A few words, until then: It also reads as though it’s “Pride and Faith” that are the duo that are making you stay in the Church. Am I wrong? I’m not sure that I’m picking up on your humility and doubt.

Trust that one can master a simple machine that you’ve seen hundreds of children ride to school, is not the same as having a faith in a supernatural being who made an evil man rich and cursed my friend with black skin so he can’t vote. Then this all-powerful, all-knowing being sent men, who said they were prophets, who either misrepresented or lied to me about what they absolutely knew that he (God) said. Faith in God and bicycle riding are not the same. It’s not pride or faith keeping me from mastering the bike, it’s lack of practice.

That bicycle might get me to work, but it’s not going to raise me from the dead.

Thanks. I look forward to it. When comparing riding a bike to faith, I'm more comparing the feeling of learning a bike to the feeling of beginning to have faith. It reminds me of the same feelings: uncomfortable, exposed, unsure, and even a little scary. There are clearly some aspects of the comparison that just don't fit.

As far as pride and faith keeping me in the church. I'll have to think about that one. I look forward to your explanation.

[JohnW]

I will never understand how someone can compell themselves to believe something that is logically incoherent.

This is probably one of the main reasons faith is difficult for you, assuming that is the case. I'm not trying to be offensive, just pointing out that the personality types that are highly logical tend to have issues with faith. I am one of those personality types. There was a time I really struggled with faith. It is still an uncomfortable thing for me at times.

The main problem with this personality type (speaking from experience) is that we assume that if something is logical, then it is true. It only takes an elementary study of logic to know this is not the case. Logic is a good method to process information, but if the initial information is bad, no amount of logic will help you find the truth. This is true in both secular and non-secular realms.

[JohnW]

I have difficulty with the whole idea of choosing to believe - in anything.

This is probably the crux of the issue for you. I understand that in some cases there is sufficient evidence to weigh things in your mind, as you describe. What do you do when there is inconclusive evidence and you must make a decision? Surely you have come across situations like this in your life. In addition there are situations where we think we have conclusive evidence, but we actually don't . . . and we won't discover that fact until sometime in the future.

I guess if you live in such a way to never chose to believe in anything, then in my mind you limit your choices to situations where you have sufficient evidence (or feel like you do). That doesn't seem like living life to its full extent, but I recognize I am biased. I can come up with a bunch of examples of decisions in life where we are hopeful and believe the choice we make will be something good for us despite the inconclusive evidence we have at the moment of decision.

[JohnW]

Here’s a similar answer from a GA. The more jaded part of me suspects he has given this talk more than once.

CulturalGA Story - A GA resolved a doubting members long list of questions with just three answers....... (self.Mormon)

submitted 2 hours ago by jamesallredHappy Heretic

A GA very recently shared this story in a stake conference.

He asked to visit members homes (in a different stake) who could benefit from the presence of a general authority. Of course the homes offered were those families with someone who was questioning the church.

This particular GA shared that as they came into the home the member shared that he had a list of questions this high (holding his hand at shoulder height). And because of those questions he was no longer participating in the church.
The GA then shared his answers he gave to that member to resolve his doubts. He (the GA) observed that he saw the "light bulb" go on in the doubting members face.
​
What answers did the GA give to resolve the doubts?

Answer #1 - Just believe even when you don't know.

The GA shared the story often repeated in the temple about Adam offering sacrifices and NOT knowing why. He told the doubting member that he just needed to follow the example of Adam and obey the prophet even when he didn't know why.

Answer #2 - I (GA) have unanswered questions too.

The GA told the member that he didn't know a lot of things and had questions too. But he found value in being a member of the church and so the doubting member should too.

Answer #3 - If you feel the spirit or feel good in church settings, then you know you are doing what God wants you to do. Just ignore everything else.

It is all about spiritual affirmation. If you seek and feel the spirit then you don't need to worry about unanswered questions. Feeling the spirit is all you need in this life.
​
At the end of the story the GA said that he saw the "light bulb" go on in this doubting members eyes.
​
There you have it. The amazing answers from a GA to resolve all the difficult questions about church truth claims.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... bers_long/

There is a whole lot of truth to what this general authority says. I would describe it a different way. I would say that the problem is not how many unanswered questions we have on our list. The problem is that people often don't know how to deal with even one unanswered question. I have a hard time understanding why people stop having faith because of a long list of unanswered questions and then go on happily living their life despite the long list of unanswered questions in their regular life. Again, I personally think it comes down to trust. Unanswered questions just tend to ferret out our level of trust in the thing with the unanswered questions. They aren't always an indicator of how true something might be.

[drumdude]

If we hadn’t been exposed to Mormonism, we wouldn’t even be making any conscious choice to believe or not in Mormonism. Just like 90 percent of the world has never made any conscious choice about it.

Just like we haven’t made a choice about worshiping Zeus. We are aware people believed in Zeus, but it doesn’t even occupy a second’s serious reflection if we should believe.

[JohnW]

JohnW:

We can all list a number of completely coherent and logical reasons to NOT believe in Santa Claus. If I nevertheless rejected those reasons and trusted what my parents and classmates had originally told me about him--you know, had faith in Santa Claus--would you praise me or pity me? Why?

A discussion on this is exactly the first chapter of my book. I use the Easter Bunny, but same thing. I think Santa Claus is a great way to introduce what I somewhat facetiously call "the only necessary argument on the topic of God in any form." I won't go into the details of the argument, but the intro goes something like this: When my little brother found a bunch of spare Easter Candy in my dad's top drawer the day after Easter, he told me that he found out Dad was the Easter Bunny. Notice that he didn't say the Easter Bunny doesn't exist; he told me that Dad is the Easter Bunny. The entity that he called "Easter Bunny" left candy for him in little plastic eggs. That was a fact. What he found out that day was that his understanding of the whole situation was terribly incomplete. When we talk about existence of God, most people use the wrong types of argument. They talk about a bunch of characteristics of God and then try to find ways to allow for the existence of an entity with those characteristics. What Latter-day Saint Theology does is start from personal experience with God and then build from there. If we take that same approach and start with our direct experience with the Easter Bunny (or Santa Claus), we eventually come to the conclusion that the entity that leaves candy (or presents) for us on special occasions is actually a parent. That may not be as majestic as all the stories, but it is real . . . which is a whole lot better than fantasy, at least if you like candy. When I talk with my Mainstream Christian friends, one complaint is that the Latter-day Saint God is too regular. He just seems like a glorified parent. He isn't majestic enough for them. My counterargument is that if he actually exists, then that would be all that matters. And in LDS theology, he actually is just a glorified parent.

Yeah, not the best intro to the argument, but I probably wouldn't do it justice without just copying and pasting the whole chapter here. To answer your question, if your faith is primarily in all the stories various people tell you about Santa Claus, then that is probably a bad thing long-term. If your faith is primarily in your personal experience, then that could be a good thing and would eventually lead you to the truth. I wouldn't recommend rejecting the whole idea of Santa Claus entirely and refusing to open presents on Christmas morning. (yeah, I may be taking the analogy too far there).