Elder Holland may not be Secondly Anointed?

[drumdude]

Not to mention, the Q15 hardly need anyone to point out their virtues. They have an entire billion dollar media empire which tells the world 24/7.

One small forum on the internet offering a counter point hardly seems over the top or unwarranted.

[Kishkumen]

Your words, not mine. Every one has good and evil inside them, and everyone has done good and bad. I believe DD’s point on Pg. #2 was that Holland was getting a nice perk while demanding the flock pay up, all the while knowing he’s benefiting from a double standard.

You just prefer to make things out to be worse than they are.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Your words, not mine. Every one has good and evil inside them, and everyone has done good and bad. I believe DD’s point on Pg. #2 was that Holland was getting a nice perk while demanding the flock pay up, all the while knowing he’s benefiting from a double standard.

You just prefer to make things out to be worse than they are.

Take it up with drumdude, he was the one asserting Holland doesn’t pay tithing.

- Doc

[Kishkumen]

Not to mention, the Q15 hardly need anyone to point out their virtues. They have an entire billion dollar media empire which tells the world 24/7.

One small forum on the internet offering a counter point hardly seems over the top or unwarranted.

One small person on that forum pushing back against all the negativity doesn’t seem unwarranted either.

[Kishkumen]

Take it up with drumdude, he was the one asserting Holland doesn’t pay tithing.

- Doc

You can bow out whenever you like!

[drumdude]

Not to mention, the Q15 hardly need anyone to point out their virtues. They have an entire billion dollar media empire which tells the world 24/7.

One small forum on the internet offering a counter point hardly seems over the top or unwarranted.

One small person on that forum pushing back against all the negativity doesn’t seem unwarranted either.

I always appreciate you playing the middle, I hope my posts haven’t implied otherwise. When you get criticism from DCP and us it’s a good sign you’re right where you need to be.

[Gadianton]

If you're going to stand before millions of people and the whole world and say you're a prophet, seer, and revelator, or let it ride as others ordain you as such, then let the criticism fly. Nobody who claims to be God's mouthpiece on earth deserves protection from criticism. Criticism should be plentiful, and far outweigh any praise.

[Kishkumen]

If you're going to stand before millions of people and the whole world and say you're a prophet, seer, and revelator, or let it ride as others ordain you as such, then let the criticism fly. Nobody who claims to be God's mouthpiece on earth deserves protection from criticism. Criticism should be plentiful, and far outweigh any praise.

I think criticism is a good thing. Don't get me wrong. That said, the amount of unanswered criticism that occurs here practically invalidates the whole board. Some people just dismiss this place because it contains almost nothing but criticism. Some of the criticism here goes too far. I also think that criticism can be a matter of perspective.

You know, the whole idea of the "prophets, seers, and revelators" being God's mouthpieces on earth doesn't seem to amount to as much as one might think. Consider how short today's LDS leaders fall of Joseph Smith, and I don't think you can do anything else but conclude that they are not prophets, seers, and revelators in the way Smith was. They hold the titles and exercise authority over the LDS Church, but they don't do what Joseph did to lay claim to those roles.

[Kishkumen]

I always appreciate you playing the middle, I hope my posts haven’t implied otherwise. When you get criticism from DCP and us it’s a good sign you’re right where you need to be.

Thanks, drumdude. It makes things that much more interesting, hopefully.

[drumdude]

If you're going to stand before millions of people and the whole world and say you're a prophet, seer, and revelator, or let it ride as others ordain you as such, then let the criticism fly. Nobody who claims to be God's mouthpiece on earth deserves protection from criticism. Criticism should be plentiful, and far outweigh any praise.

I think criticism is a good thing. Don't get me wrong. That said, the amount of unanswered criticism that occurs here practically invalidates the whole board. Some people just dismiss this place because it contains almost nothing but criticism. Some of the criticism here goes too far. I also think that criticism can be a matter of perspective.

You know, the whole idea of the "prophets, seers, and revelators" being God's mouthpieces on earth doesn't seem to amount to as much as one might think. Consider how short today's LDS leaders fall of Joseph Smith, and I don't think you can do anything else but conclude that they are not prophets, seers, and revelators in the way Smith was. They hold the titles and exercise authority over the LDS Church, but they don't do what Joseph did to lay claim to those roles.

I've seen a lot of attempts over the years to deliver a softer criticism of the church, John Dehlin tried this and even created an entire forum called StayLDS - devoted entirely to trying to "make it work" as a skeptical progressive member.

Bill Reel tried to make it work, Dehlin tried to make it work, plenty of Mormons tried to walk a nice soft line and guide the church and its members gently in the right direction. And the church came down on them hard for all of their efforts.

At the end of the day, both sides think that the truth matters. If Mormonism is a sham, it should be criticised. It's the objectively right thing to do. And if Mormonism is true, it should be preached from the mountain tops. The middle ground is a weird moral relativism, and almost nihilistic view that nothing really matters and no belief system is any better or worse than any other. I think if you take that to the extreme, and put Scientology/Mormonism/*insert high demand cult here* on the same level as the Catholic church or Buddhism, you've gone wrong. I know it's a hot take to equate Mormonism and Scientology but in my mind you have to do a lot of mental gymnastics not to see the glaring and harmful similarities.