What is Gravity?

[honorentheos]

Ok, but then we'd experience different gravity at different times if God interacts with you or I as material beings with mass. That doesn't appear to be an observable phenomena. So why say that is what gravity is if it isn't something that is observable in a traceable manner to spiritual experiences? If the scriptures say that where two or more are gathered in Christ's name, there He is, then gravity should be measurably different in these locations given your theory. That would be an example of a falsifiable experiment you could use to prove your theory, actually.

No, not given my "theory". First, I haven't offered a theory.

Then what's this?

So. Does God have mass, then?

God is the source of gravity. Gravity is a by product, really, of a relationship between God's power and matter, in different contexts.

It's been called the "ether" in the past. It's been given many different interpretations but at the most simple level, it's God's power. He is supplying a constant "stream" of the ether, imparting force, energy, and magnetism as it interacts with and collides with matter.

When the Father is indwelling in a human form, He has mass. That would be to my understanding, 57. When God is interacting as the Father in Spirit, He might have mass, but that would be 38. Then there is 19, the unbounded or undivided Father, and I'm not sure what that is! But my rudimentary understanding is this is the Father in His most pure form. Without division, having all portions of Him borrowed, returned back to the Source.

It's a mystery for sure but still, it glints at the corner of the eye, so to speak.



EDIT: 57 is the Son

That's a theory.

Why do you assume different gravity would exist at different times based on the idea that a portion of the Spirit of the Father is loaned to us temporarily?

Because anything that changes has effects, and any effect is due to change.

If God isn't just some constant steady flow but is an active participant in the universe there are effects. Otherwise what is the point of religion if the workings of God do not affect the person wrought upon or opening up to said influence?

If there is just stasis, there isn't anything being said here really worth saying at any rate.

So yeah, I think the idea gravity should be different where Christ is claimed to be present should be a testable way of proving or disproving your theory.

[Valo]

The term is one I used to try and describe what you were claiming. Remove phases, you're still arguing that God can be massless, has mass, and is something "other", then? If not phases, what would you call the differences?

Again, I'm not arguing anything. You asked me a question and I am telling you want I think. I am answering your questions. Not arguing.

God, when He indwells a human, would have mass because He is in a symbiotic relationship with a human. The portion of the Spirit that is inside of you, if the Father is in there ( ), it is a part of you. But it is also a separate intelligence. It's being loaned to you. See you have to grasp on to that notion. You are in this Universe with It's laws. The unbounded 19, Father, is not. He is "extending" Himself in to this Universe, while He maintains it, outside of it. He doesn't have to change at all in order to exist inside of this Universe at any point.

But when He is extending a portion of Himself inside of us, He is bound by the laws of physics, because He is inside of our temporal body, so to speak. And thus sense we are bound, He is bound. He is in a symbiotic relationship with us. He has a purpose for each of His children and they are working through their salvation be they aware or not, He is aware and is experiencing what they experience, gravity and all.

It's a new way of looking at it, perhaps.

[honorentheos]

The term is one I used to try and describe what you were claiming. Remove phases, you're still arguing that God can be massless, has mass, and is something "other", then? If not phases, what would you call the differences?

Again, I'm not arguing anything. You asked me a question and I am telling you want I think. I am answering your questions. Not arguing.

God, when He indwells a human, would have mass because He is in a symbiotic relationship with a human. The portion of the Spirit that is inside of you, if the Father is in there ( ), it is a part of you. But it is also a separate intelligence. It's being loaned to you. See you have to grasp on to that notion. You are in this Universe with It's laws. The unbounded 19, Father, is not. He is "extending" Himself in to this Universe, while He maintains it, outside of it. He doesn't have to change at all in order to exist inside of this Universe at any point.

But when He is extending a portion of Himself inside of us, He is bound by the laws of physics, because He is inside of our temporal body, so to speak. And thus sense we are bound, He is bound. He is in a symbiotic relationship with us. He has a purpose for each of His children and they are working through their salvation be they aware or not, He is aware and is experiencing what they experience, gravity and all.

It's a new way of looking at it, perhaps.

Again, if gravity is a byproduct of these interactions it will differ in different conditions. This is testable.

[Valo]

No, not given my "theory". First, I haven't offered a theory.

Then what's this?

God is the source of gravity. Gravity is a by product, really, of a relationship between God's power and matter, in different contexts.

It's been called the "ether" in the past. It's been given many different interpretations but at the most simple level, it's God's power. He is supplying a constant "stream" of the ether, imparting force, energy, and magnetism as it interacts with and collides with matter.

When the Father is indwelling in a human form, He has mass. That would be to my understanding, 57. When God is interacting as the Father in Spirit, He might have mass, but that would be 38. Then there is 19, the unbounded or undivided Father, and I'm not sure what that is! But my rudimentary understanding is this is the Father in His most pure form. Without division, having all portions of Him borrowed, returned back to the Source.

It's a mystery for sure but still, it glints at the corner of the eye, so to speak.



EDIT: 57 is the Son

That's a theory.

It's me answering your question and telling you what I think. I was assu you were asking to learn what I think. I didn't assume you were arguing. I am not arguing or offering a theory.

Why do you assume different gravity would exist at different times based on the idea that a portion of the Spirit of the Father is loaned to us temporarily?

Because anything that changes has effects, and any effect is due to change.[/quote]
I don't understand what you are saying here.

If God isn't just some constant steady flow but is an active participant in the universe there are effects. Otherwise what is the point of religion if the workings of God do not affect the person wrought upon or opening up to said influence?

The point of religions are to rob you of your true identity and exploit your energy for their growth and the betterment of their leaders and master.

[honorentheos]

Then what's this?



That's a theory.

It's me answering your question and telling you what I think. I was assu you were asking to learn what I think. I didn't assume you were arguing. I am not arguing or offering a theory.

I was attempting to decipher your discussion with Gad in so far as it looked like an argument for one position over another. I was trying to figure out what it was you thought at a deeper level. So far I'm not sure you've answered that. It just seems like something a sophomore philosophy major would make up while stoned, to be honest. If Mormons get stoned.

Why do you assume different gravity would exist at different times based on the idea that a portion of the Spirit of the Father is loaned to us temporarily?

Because anything that changes has effects, and any effect is due to change.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

It is really a tautology. If something changes in an observable way those would be effects. And if there are observable effects, its due to the thing being observed being observable against a background. If gravity is due to the interaction of God's power and matter, and gravity is not a static constant but something that we can and do measure based on observable conditions and changes, then your proposition would be testable by showing that gravity changes where there is a change in degree of the presence of God which you describe as occurring when God becomes symbiotic with a person. If your ideas have merit, there are means of testing them through this basic fact about how the forces you ascribe to God behave.

If God isn't just some constant steady flow but is an active participant in the universe there are effects. Otherwise what is the point of religion if the workings of God do not affect the person wrought upon or opening up to said influence?

The point of religions are to rob you of your true identity and exploit your energy for their growth and the betterment of their leaders and master.

On that we largely agree. So there's that.

[Valo]

Again, I'm not arguing anything. You asked me a question and I am telling you want I think. I am answering your questions. Not arguing.

God, when He indwells a human, would have mass because He is in a symbiotic relationship with a human. The portion of the Spirit that is inside of you, if the Father is in there ( ), it is a part of you. But it is also a separate intelligence. It's being loaned to you. See you have to grasp on to that notion. You are in this Universe with It's laws. The unbounded 19, Father, is not. He is "extending" Himself in to this Universe, while He maintains it, outside of it. He doesn't have to change at all in order to exist inside of this Universe at any point.

But when He is extending a portion of Himself inside of us, He is bound by the laws of physics, because He is inside of our temporal body, so to speak. And thus sense we are bound, He is bound. He is in a symbiotic relationship with us. He has a purpose for each of His children and they are working through their salvation be they aware or not, He is aware and is experiencing what they experience, gravity and all.

It's a new way of looking at it, perhaps.

Again, if gravity is a byproduct of these interactions it will differ in different conditions. This is testable.

Your question was about God having mass. Again, yes and no and maybe.

God exist outside of the Universe. The Ether is "pressurizing" our Universe and is the fundamental cause for all things we observe as our Universe and all it's laws. God is the source of the Ether.

[honorentheos]

Again, if gravity is a byproduct of these interactions it will differ in different conditions. This is testable.

Your question was about God having mass. Again, yes and no and maybe.

God exist outside of the Universe. The Ether is "pressurizing" our Universe and is the fundamental cause for all things we observe as our Universe and all it's laws. God is the source of the Ether.

The issue is time demands change to actually be definable. So god can't be an external constant independent of the universe AND interact with it in any way from within it. Those aren't compatible ideas.

[Valo]

It's me answering your question and telling you what I think. I was assu you were asking to learn what I think. I didn't assume you were arguing. I am not arguing or offering a theory.

I was attempting to decipher your discussion with Gad in so far as it looked like an argument for one position over another. I was trying to figure out what it was you thought at a deeper level. So far I'm not sure you've answered that. It just seems like something a sophomore philosophy major would make up while stoned, to be honest. If Mormons get stoned.

Why do you assume different gravity would exist at different times based on the idea that a portion of the Spirit of the Father is loaned to us temporarily?

Because anything that changes has effects, and any effect is due to change.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

It is really a tautology. If something changes in an observable way those would be effects. And if there are observable effects, its due to the thing being observed being observable against a background. If gravity is due to the interaction of God's power and matter, and gravity is not a static constant but something that we can and do measure based on observable conditions and changes, then your proposition would be testable by showing that gravity changes where there is a change in degree of the presence of God which you describe as occurring when God becomes symbiotic with a person. If your ideas have merit, there are means of testing them through this basic fact about how the forces you ascribe to God behave.

The point of religions are to rob you of your true identity and exploit your energy for their growth and the betterment of their leaders and master.

On that we largely agree. So there's that.

As far as testable. I mean gravity is what it is and we have the means of calculating what we experience as the affects of gravity to a high degree of accuracy at the scale we are able to comprehend but the math starts to break down at really massive scales and at really small scales. There is something missing. To discover the ether, an invisible, undetectable substance, would require a shift in assumptions by those willing to perform such an experiment.

The germs for such an experiment have been supplied in this thread probably to anyone with the heart and the means to do so.

The model of the Universe given by the Spirit to Michael Sherwin makes several predictions regarding the ether. I suggest that as a starting point maybe if interested in creating such.

[honorentheos]

I was attempting to decipher your discussion with Gad in so far as it looked like an argument for one position over another. I was trying to figure out what it was you thought at a deeper level. So far I'm not sure you've answered that. It just seems like something a sophomore philosophy major would make up while stoned, to be honest. If Mormons get stoned.





It is really a tautology. If something changes in an observable way those would be effects. And if there are observable effects, its due to the thing being observed being observable against a background. If gravity is due to the interaction of God's power and matter, and gravity is not a static constant but something that we can and do measure based on observable conditions and changes, then your proposition would be testable by showing that gravity changes where there is a change in degree of the presence of God which you describe as occurring when God becomes symbiotic with a person. If your ideas have merit, there are means of testing them through this basic fact about how the forces you ascribe to God behave.


On that we largely agree. So there's that.

As far as testable. I mean gravity is what it is and we have the means of calculating what we experience as the affects of gravity to a high degree of accuracy at the scale we are able to comprehend but the math starts to break down at really massive scales and at really small scales. There is something missing.

Yeah. Scientific frontiers are a thing and always will be.

To discover the ether, an invisible, undetectable substance, would require a shift in assumptions by those willing to perform such an experiment.

Yeah, to be a viable theory it has to be testable and falsifiable. That's what makes a theory more useful than the stories told around campfires for thousands of years by proto-religions.

The germs for such an experiment have been supplied in this thread probably to anyone with the heart and the means to do so.

Meaning you'll measure if gravity changes when you are feeling the spirit? That's testable and falsifiable.

The model of the Universe given by the Spirit to Michael Sherwin makes several predictions regarding the ether. I suggest that as a starting point maybe if interested in creating such.

What's an experiment that could prove it false you suggest trying?

[Valo]

Your question was about God having mass. Again, yes and no and maybe.

God exist outside of the Universe. The Ether is "pressurizing" our Universe and is the fundamental cause for all things we observe as our Universe and all it's laws. God is the source of the Ether.

The issue is time demands change to actually be definable. So god can't be an external constant independent of the universe AND interact with it in any way from within it. Those aren't compatible ideas.

Time is temporary and isn't even real. God exist in Eternity.

God can dream anything He wants to.

So you're saying, let's say, if I were God and I created a simulator, your saying that I couldn't project my conscience in to my simulator via an avatar of some sort, AND interact with my creation, inside my simulator, via this avatar, in any way?