So you made a point of approaching two JW’s for a chat and didn’t bear your sincere testimony of Mormonism? Wow! Is in-person missionary work someone else’s job in your mind?MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 9:23 pmSure.Although if you had read what I’ve already said, I’ve alluded to and/or given what I believe to be an adequate answer.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 8:47 pmHi MG, I’m bumping these questions for a second time, as you seem to have missed them. Again. Please answer them.
Be that as it may, no, a testimony does not need to be face to face in order to be a valid witness by the one sharing that witness. That testimony might come through various means.
In my conversation with the two ladies that were witnessing for their Jehovah’s Witness faith they didn’t share any scripture or really bring up much at all in regards to their faith. Basically we talked about the fact that the weather was beautiful along with the surf. I mentioned I was LDS visiting from Utah.
And that was about it.
Honestly, I was expecting they might share a scripture or two but they apparently didn’t feel it necessary, for whatever reason, to do so.
Regards,
MG
Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
1. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. 2. The best evidence for The Book of Mormon is eye witness testimony, therefore… 3.The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a type of evidence that is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
And again you truncated my post, and completely changed the point. Here's how you excerpt, and keep the point:
Marcus wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 4:37 amPresented in the link above, as evidence in favor of the historicity of the Book of Mormon:MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 3:56 amHere is another paper that can be added to the other links I’ve posted in this thread. Only for the lurkers though.
https://rsc.BYU.edu/historicity-latter- ... ook-Mormon ...
[excerpt]
...Some historical details: book written by ancestors of Indians, translated into English, duration of plates’ burial in ground, Israelite ancestry of Indians....
Your disingenuousness is noted. I'm assuming it's because you can't support your link, or discuss it, and most likely didn't even read it.Marcus wrote: It's a known and universally accepted fact that the above statements about "our western tribes of Indians" are blatantly and completely untrue.
What a source.
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
I didn’t feel prompted to do so. They were middle age or older and I think they had already had experiences with Mormons (one or both of them may have even said they either knew Mormons or had friends that were Mormons…I can’t remember one way or the other). At least that’s the feeling I got as I was talking to them.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 9:52 pmSo you made a point of approaching two JW’s for a chat and didn’t bear your sincere testimony of Mormonism? Wow! Is in-person missionary work someone else’s job in your mind?MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 9:23 pm
Sure.Although if you had read what I’ve already said, I’ve alluded to and/or given what I believe to be an adequate answer.
Be that as it may, no, a testimony does not need to be face to face in order to be a valid witness by the one sharing that witness. That testimony might come through various means.
In my conversation with the two ladies that were witnessing for their Jehovah’s Witness faith they didn’t share any scripture or really bring up much at all in regards to their faith. Basically we talked about the fact that the weather was beautiful along with the surf. I mentioned I was LDS visiting from Utah.
And that was about it.
Honestly, I was expecting they might share a scripture or two but they apparently didn’t feel it necessary, for whatever reason, to do so.
Regards,
MG
I’m hoping that when we left each other after having had a nice conversation that they would come away from it thinking, “OK, that was a nice guy, good conversation.” I certainly went on my way thinking the same of those two and thought to myself, “If their church is a place in which two people like this can find a spiritual family, then more power to them”.
In my mind, a faith community is a good place to be for many people. They will find the right fit. The community that works for them.
It’s not like I was going to stand there and preach hell fire and damnation.
Would you have done so back in the day?
Regards,
MG
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
Marcus wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 10:08 pmAnd again you truncated my post, and completely changed the point. Here's how you excerpt, and keep the point:[excerpt]
...Some historical details: book written by ancestors of Indians, translated into English, duration of plates’ burial in ground, Israelite ancestry of Indians....Your disingenuousness is noted. I'm assuming it's because you can't support your link, or discuss it, and most likely didn't even read it.Marcus wrote: It's a known and universally accepted fact that the above statements about "our western tribes of Indians" are blatantly and completely untrue.
What a source.
Yeah, I did. Not gonna play your normal twist and shout dance/routine. Waste of time.
Oliver said what he said. It had to do with your quote. He had his opinion. Joseph had his.
Nuff said. To me it looks like they both might have been off target. But then I have an opinion too.
Regards,
MG
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
That's not quite going to work MG. You're trying to save your position after the fact. Here's one of the many things you said:MG 2.0 wrote:I think PG came as close to my own thoughts as I could hope anyone could. I’m not questioning the sincerity of anyone who believes what they believe.
If you saw things like PG does, then you wouldn't have been "waiting for them to offer up their testimony".MG 2.0 wrote:But I haven’t heard one. I was recently running along the Ventura State Beach promenade/boardwalk along the beautiful coastline. There were a couple of Jehovah’s Witness ladies with a display set up there. After I finished my run I came back and had a nice chat with them actually waiting for them to offer up their testimony.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
Good to hear. So you're saying that a JW's spiritual witness (or testimony, or knowledge) of their faith has as much validity and likely truth value as your own. I'm assuming that you would extend that to all people.
How could you, when you haven't looked anywhere?
You've not shown anything to suggest it's true. That's my point. You make a statement with nothing to back it up but your own feelings. This is not LDS doctrine. No LDS scripture suggests this. Like your testimony, you've somehow come to believe it, so you think it must be true.
Now it's "reintroduce" rather than introduce. No, it doesn't make sense. It might make sense to you as a believer. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to all believers, let alone to those of other faiths.
But they don't believe that Jesus invented personal prayer or was the first in history to suggest a prayer to a 'father' God. Suggesting this is ridiculous.
Then you'll show me.
Actually, I was giving you the benifit of the doubt. If you do it as an act of devotion, it could be somewhat understood. If it's not coming from a place of service to your faith, then it's just malicious.
I don't think you know what that means.
Oh, I agree. PG did a great job of why some minority religions feel the need testify.
That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm suggesting that members of other faiths are just as strong and as sure in their beliefs as any Mormon is in theirs. To suggest otherwise is stupid.
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
This is too funny. I was quoting from a link that YOU inserted into a post on this thread, apropos of nothing:MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 10:27 pmYeah, I did. Not gonna play your normal twist and shout dance/routine. Waste of time.
Oliver said what he said. It had to do with your quote. He had his opinion. Joseph had his.
Nuff said. To me it looks like they both might have been off target. But then I have an opinion too.
Regards,
MG
So I read your link and responded, but you now call talking about your own link "a waste of time"!!!!!!!MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 3:56 amHere is another paper that can be added to the other links I’ve posted in this thread. Only for the lurkers though.
https://rsc.BYU.edu/historicity-latter- ... ook-Mormon...
Because, get this, you think "it looks like [the people quoted] might have been off target." In a link YOU posted in support of Book of Mormon historicity.
Seriously, mg, you have outdone yourself this time. It's hard to believe you're not just Poe-ing.
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
MG, you just got boom roasted!
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
I expected that they might offer up some kind of ‘door approach’ or persuasive ‘intro’ to start talking religion. As it was, they didn’t and I didn’t. We just had a nice conversation and got to know each other.Gadianton wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:46 pmThat's not quite going to work MG. You're trying to save your position after the fact. Here's one of the many things you said:MG 2.0 wrote:I think PG came as close to my own thoughts as I could hope anyone could. I’m not questioning the sincerity of anyone who believes what they believe.
If you saw things like PG does, then you wouldn't have been "waiting for them to offer up their testimony".MG 2.0 wrote:But I haven’t heard one. I was recently running along the Ventura State Beach promenade/boardwalk along the beautiful coastline. There were a couple of Jehovah’s Witness ladies with a display set up there. After I finished my run I came back and had a nice chat with them actually waiting for them to offer up their testimony.
But yes, I was expecting them to go into ‘religious mode”.
Still trying to look for that ‘weakness’ to drive a wedge in, huh Gadianton?
Regards,
MG
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?
Hi Morley,Morley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 12:25 amGood to hear. So you're saying that a JW's spiritual witness (or testimony, or knowledge) of their faith has as much validity and likely truth value as your own. I'm assuming that you would extend that to all people.
How could you, when you haven't looked anywhere?
You've not shown anything to suggest it's true. That's my point. You make a statement with nothing to back it up but your own feelings. This is not LDS doctrine. No LDS scripture suggests this. Like your testimony, you've somehow come to believe it, so you think it must be true.
Now it's "reintroduce" rather than introduce. No, it doesn't make sense. It might make sense to you as a believer. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to all believers, let alone to those of other faiths.
But they don't believe that Jesus invented personal prayer or was the first in history to suggest a prayer to a 'father' God. Suggesting this is ridiculous.
Then you'll show me.
Actually, I was giving you the benifit of the doubt. If you do it as an act of devotion, it could be somewhat understood. If it's not coming from a place of service to your faith, then it's just malicious.
I don't think you know what that means.
Oh, I agree. PG did a great job of why some minority religions feel the need testify.
That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm suggesting that members of other faiths are just as strong and as sure in their beliefs as any Mormon is in theirs. To suggest otherwise is stupid.
I’m not seeing anything in your response that I’m finding anything other as ‘filler’. But thanks for your response, such as it is.
The only thing I see that is worth responding to is your last statement. And if I wasn’t clear let me say even more clearly that I agree with that statement. There, I bolded it. You’re making something out of nothing. Honestly, that’s what I see throughout your post.
Filler.
But you did respond. Partial credit for that.
Regards,
MG