Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[Morley]

When taken as a whole, I don’t see the issue of italics and New Testament verses in the Book of Mormon as being a ‘smoking gun’.

What's your explanation? I think the ghost committee probably suggested that he place the italics where he did.

[I Have Questions]

Italics aren’t even an issue.

The words in italics absolutely are an issue to the claim that the Book of Mormon is a translation of ancient plates. Those words in italics are from the 17th Century. They’re not from ancient gold plates. So whatever the Book of Mormon is or isn’t, it isn’t what it claims to be.

IHQ earlier made a point that the translation came from Mormon’s mouth.

No I didn’t. Here’s what I said… “You seem to be misunderstanding. I’ll try and explain a bit further. The quote from 1st Corinthians was supposedly written by Paul - so coming out of Paul’s mouth. The quote from Moroni is stated as being what Mormon supposedly said - so coming out of Mormon’s mouth. But clearly, Smith quoted the KJV Bible, verbatim, and simply put Paul’s words into Mormon’s mouth.”

You’ve been warned about misrepresenting what people say before. Stop it.

It came from Joseph’s mouth and one needs to explain how in the world that happened without some kind of help.

Why are wanting people to assume that Smith needed to have had supernatural assistance? People produce books all the time without supernatural assistance. Most of them manage to avoid plagiarising other books. Unlike the Book of Mormon.

I mentioned that, yes, Mormon may have been involved in that process. And if he was involved why would we not consider that others were also involved?

There’s no evidence for your fanciful musings. Not even from the Church. There is evidence that Smith was a gifted story teller, there is clear evidence that Smith plagiarised the KJV Bible.

Again, I have not seen any critical theory that explains the translation process from a purely ‘physical’ sense (Joseph did it) that even comes close to actually making sense.

Smith was a gifted story teller who plagiarised the KJV Bible and copied its style.

The words came out of his mouth. His head was in a hat. The narrative is complex with various voices speaking in their own unique way. It was all done in less than three months. Etc.

Less than 3 months? Smith had years to craft his tale.

And on top of that there is little if any evidence that Joseph used any exterior reference sources during the process of translation. Only conjecture on the part of disbelievers.

There’s hard evidence of Smith plagiarising the KJV Bible. And that alone disproves the claim that the Book of Mormon is a translation of ancient plates.

Were all the witnesses to the translation process lying?

That’s definitely a possibility. What we do know for certain is that 1. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon issue witness testimony. 2. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, eye witness testimony that’s co-ordinated by a single dominant influential person is the most unreliable type of unreliable eye witness testimony. So 3. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is the least reliable form of unreliable evidence.

Anyway, these things have been discussed over and over for many many years now. We have the Book of Mormon. We have Joseph’s testimony that it was given/translated by the power of God. I think we need to consider taking him at his word.

Despite the hard evidence that he plagiarised the KJV Bible.

When taken as a whole, I don’t see the issue of italics and New Testament verses in the Book of Mormon as being a ‘smoking gun’. There’s just too much other stuff going on there.

Regardless of how you choose to see it, plagiarised KJV Bible content in the Book of Mormon shows it is not what it is claimed to be - a translation of ancient plates.

Here’s the claim:
AN ACCOUNT WRITTEN BY
THE HAND OF Mormon
UPON PLATES TAKEN FROM THE PLATES OF NEPHI

The plagiarised KJV Bible content sinks that claim. Completely.

[Morley]

I’ve alluded to that.

Please explain it in detail. I'm sure that both board members and lurkers would love to read it.

[MG 2.0]

The words in italics absolutely are an issue to the claim that the Book of Mormon is a translation of ancient plates. Those words in italics are from the 17th Century. They’re not from ancient gold plates.

Of course not.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

The quote from 1st Corinthians was supposedly written by Paul - so coming out of Paul’s mouth. The quote from Moroni is stated as being what Mormon supposedly said - so coming out of Mormon’s mouth. But clearly, Smith quoted the KJV Bible, verbatim, and simply put Paul’s words into Mormon’s mouth.”

As long as we’re clear that the words came from Joseph’s mouth.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Smith was a gifted story teller who plagiarised the KJV Bible and copied its style.

I can honor that opinion although I disagree. When you say, “copied its style”, do you mean copied it in his head and interwove it into the Book of Mormon narrative? And he did it ‘on the fly’ along with everything else going on textually?

Refer to earlier post.

If so, that’s fine…but I believe that to be a real stretch.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

Smith was a gifted story teller who plagiarised the KJV Bible and copied its style.

I can honor that opinion although I disagree. When you say, “copied its style”, do you mean copied it in his head and interwove it into the Book of Mormon narrative? And he did it ‘on the fly’ along with everything else going on textually?

Refer to earlier post.

If so, that’s fine…but I believe that to be a real stretch.

Regards,
MG

Smith plagiarised the KJV Bible. That’s a hard fact. As to how he produced the other fictional tale, who cares? It’s irrelevant. The claim that the Book of Mormon is a translation of ancient plates is already debunked. The rest amounts to a discussion about how the deckchairs were arranged on the Titanic.

[MG 2.0]

Here’s the claim:
AN ACCOUNT WRITTEN BY
THE HAND OF Mormon
UPON PLATES TAKEN FROM THE PLATES OF NEPHI

The plagiarised KJV Bible content sinks that claim. Completely.

Again, your responses are based upon a very narrow black and white view of the complexities that I see in the Mormon translation narrative as a whole.

Sure, there were the plates. Sure, Mormon compiled the records and put the plates together as one record.

And surely, the translation process did not include translating word for word, character for character, what was on the plates.

If you feel compelled to believe otherwise I can’t take that formed opinion away from you. Nor would I. You are coming from a position that is built on your own experience, worldview, and experience.

And agency.

I honor and respect that. I simply don’t agree with you.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

And surely, the translation process did not include translating word for word, character for character, what were on the plates.

It surely did include copying, word for word, content from the KJV Bible. And the current explanation is that Smith read, word for word what was on the magic rock.

[MG 2.0]

And surely, the translation process did not include translating word for word, character for character, what were on the plates.

It surely did include copying, word for word, content from the KJV Bible.

Again, I find your usage of the word, “copying” interesting. How did he do that? Copying at what stage of the game?

How does that fit in with the witness testimony of the translation process itself?

Regards,
MG