Should the Dehlin/Rosebud drama be deleted?

[Everybody Wang Chung]

I’m assuming that’s what he did with the 10 Does he sued alongside Kamp, but that’s unknown due to Faust’s order.

OMG! Here we go again. Rosebud, the DOES 1 through 10 are not people. In Utah, if there is any indication of possibly amending the complaint to add additional parties, or if the Statute of Limitations is coming up, you need to list DOES 1 through 10 or you will be out of luck if the SOL has run and you need to amend your complaint.

Again, the DOES 1 through 10 are not people or individuals. Good freaking hell, Rosebud!

SHADES, please get rid of the Rosebud Mega Thread asap?

[IWMP]

I think maybe move it to mod forum. I don't think she should be banned because she has been allowed to do this without warning so has believed it to be ok. And maybe have a rule where you can't accuse of criminal activity without actual evidence(not just talking about evidence that isn't ever actually shown) and to not combine different cases to amplify like combining Dehlin with historical child abuse?

I do think DCP gets a hard time but he isn't accused of criminal activity without evidence and I think he enjoys reading what people have to say.

[IWMP]

Why don’t you start your own website solely for the purpose of your topic? I think your audience is limited here. Then, you have control over it and can make it what you want it to be.

Thanks for the idea. A volunteer did that for me once. It’s now redirected to the Wiki in my signature. I have a lot of projects going and don’t mind the dynamics here. And I’m after a public record more than a Mormon audience.

I think the bigger questions are for the board. What does this all mean for MD liability-wise considering Dehlin’s aggressive tendencies and his willingness to spend donor money to sue? A million dollars plus is a lot, if Kamp is reporting the numbers on the bankruptcy documents accurately.

Of course, I’d argue, what would be the point of him suing a message board that has no money? Would he go after individuals’ personal assets? I’m assuming that’s what he did with the 10 Does he sued alongside Kamp, but that’s unknown due to Faust’s order.

I am not entirely sure why he would sue.

[Kishkumen]

Move to Telestial if you move. Personal attacks are OK in Telestial, no?

[msnobody]

Thanks for the idea. A volunteer did that for me once. It’s now redirected to the Wiki in my signature. I have a lot of projects going and don’t mind the dynamics here. And I’m after a public record more than a Mormon audience.

I think the bigger questions are for the board. What does this all mean for MD liability-wise considering Dehlin’s aggressive tendencies and his willingness to spend donor money to sue? A million dollars plus is a lot, if Kamp is reporting the numbers on the bankruptcy documents accurately.

Of course, I’d argue, what would be the point of him suing a message board that has no money? Would he go after individuals’ personal assets? I’m assuming that’s what he did with the 10 Does he sued alongside Kamp, but that’s unknown due to Faust’s order.

I am not entirely sure why he would sue.

Nobody is talking about JD suing a message board. It seems you take no personal accountability for yourself whatsoever. The liability would be if you, in time, were to go off the deep end and become a threat to yourself or others, and act upon it.

[Jesse Pinkman]

Do as you see fit but ask yourself this question. By allowing serious, false, and unsupported allegations against JD and harrassment of JD, are you in fact setting yourself up (or is Rosebud setting you up) for litigation? Are you missing the forest for the trees? If you end up in litigation what happens to this board? If the board itself is deemed evidence by a court of law, would the board need to be taken offline (frozen in time) in the interim? I'd factor all of that in when weighing the matter. There are attorneys on this board. Maybe a little consult is in order. This situation has got more tentacles than anyone can count.

I'd at least pull it into the Mod Forum until you are certain what route to take. Freeze it in time yourself until you know.

I agree with this. If the thread is put in the Mod Forum, then if Shades decides it is safe to repost it in a lower forum, he can do so. But I would definitely get some legal counsel before letting this thread meander on.

[Marcus]

Thanks for the idea. A volunteer did that for me once. It’s now redirected to the Wiki in my signature. I have a lot of projects going and don’t mind the dynamics here. And I’m after a public record more than a Mormon audience.

I think the bigger questions are for the board. What does this all mean for MD liability-wise considering Dehlin’s aggressive tendencies and his willingness to spend donor money to sue? A million dollars plus is a lot, if Kamp is reporting the numbers on the bankruptcy documents accurately.

Of course, I’d argue, what would be the point of him suing a message board that has no money? Would he go after individuals’ personal assets? I’m assuming that’s what he did with the 10 Does he sued alongside Kamp, but that’s unknown due to Faust’s order.

I am not entirely sure why he would sue.

He wouldn't. Rosebud is trying to deflect by again presenting things that aren't true, things that have been corrected many times. She continues to promote untrue accusations, although the worst are when she repeatedly accuses Dehlin of things without substantiating them. She repeats stories about him that a judge in court has defined as defamatory. in my opinion, that qualifies as breaking our universal rule 9:

Do not make threats or take actions to cause another member to feel harassed or fearful for his or her safety "in real life."

Repeatedly defaming a member here by using his real name and making accusations about him, some criminal, that have been proven untrue or are never substantiated in any way certainly qualifies.

As a start, in my opinion the thread should be dropped to a forum where 'personal attacks' are allowed. The defamatory issues and criminal-type accusations can be considered separately.

[drumdude]

There’s too many lies in every Rosebud post to be able to correct them all. Every post she makes she’s conflating issues, insinuating things which aren’t there, and claiming to know everyone’s hidden nefarious motives.

She’s in the longest manic spell she’s ever been in now that John Dehlin won at trial. She’s been waiting almost 15 years now to see him fall and she’s realizing it’s not going to happen.

[Jesse Pinkman]

You know…. the whole finding and following prophets (like the Dehlins and the Nelsons) phenomenon is so different than being grounded in who one is as an individual, an individual with a sense-of-self who operates based on purpose and values and one’s own sense of place among a collective of intelligences moving forward towards consciousness development….

It’s so different.

Jarringly different.

Yet this difference (and everything it’s meant on this message board) is also fascinating, no?

Also Rosebud...

... how this is being handled by leaders in the ex-Mo community...

... the ex-Mormon leaders...

She talks about these imaginary "ex-Mormon leaders" constantly. You'd think her inconsistencies would dawn on her, but they never doesn't seem to.

I agree. Are the supposed ex-Mormon leaders those who have successful podcasts like Nemo the Mormon and Mormonism Live? I would argue that the front runner podcasters like Mormonstories, Mormonism Live, Nemo the Mormon, and Mormonish do not blatantly encourage people to leave the Church. They openly discuss their own deconstruction stories for those who are going through similar experiences. But they aren’t leading any type of movement anymore than Shades leads a movement here. (Shades obviously doesn’t. All are free to express their opinions here. )

The point of leaving the Church is to start your own journey outside of the Church walls. Everyone’s journey is individual and personal.

[Rosebud]

Shades, if it helps one way or the other with the decision, I’ve added a screenshot of the post referred to above, taken prior to any mod edit, to the relevant thread within the mod forum.

I'm glad you did. She's made variations on this serious accusation many times, so hopefully you got these also:

And there’s something else I want. I want to know what entity the Open Stories Foundation has an agreement with to not podcast about organized child sexual abuse, and, worse, to podcast in a way that supports the discrediting of victims....

And this one:

... As stated previously, what I do know is that Dehlin is podcasting to discredit victims and influence exMormons to likewise discredit them...

And this one:

... doing what I can to be part of what’s necessary to expose the dynamics of the role exMormonism plays in the coverup of organized child sexual abuse in the Mormon church...

Of course, in THIS thread she has backpeddled considerably:

...And I also stated that Kamp told me that Dehlin told her that he has an agreement with an “entity” to not allow victims of organized sexual abuse onto the podcast. Do I know that Dehlin actually told Kamp that? No. I am not an eye witness. So I state my witnesses accurately and allow others to make their own determinations.

...And none of this is also saying that Dehlin is in “cahoots” with child abusers.

I don’t have that information.

Except that in her megathread, noted in one of the quotes above, here's how she states things "accurately" about things she does not know:

...As stated previously, what I do know...

But this stuff is true. Just put “Satanic Ritual Abuse” into the search bar on his website. I didn’t back peddle anything. Don’t take my word for it. Visit MormonStories.org. John has a terrible reputation among victims who were harmed because he does this unapologetically.

And I’m just not supposed to talk about these podcasts? Why ever not? It’s all public information available on his website. My stuff gets erased for defending victims and therapists from public attacks by public figures?

In fact, he even defamed a the brother of very good man who helped my sister significantly in one of his anti-organized-child- sexual-abuse podcasts. That man was of a great support to my family personally. But, of course, John can defame anyone and his followers will still defend him.

That’s how the Mormon/anti-Mormon dynamic (in general) covers this stuff up. (I added the parenthetical “in general” for you, Marcus.)

I get that you, Marcus (whom I ought to be ignoring), don’t have as full a grasp of language use as some of the PhDs around here, but language use is important in English. You are blurring edges.

There is definitely a low capacity among Mormons to follow arguments without jumping to conclusions in protection of a prophet-like figure. Sheesh.