When you were Christian...

[huckelberry]

Gadianton, Why on earth would you accept a chick comic as a good or valid presentation of Christian faith, hope, or ideals? I see as much the opposite.

[Jersey Girl]

So if Adolf Hitler hurried and accepted Jesus right before he died (you don't know one way or the other) and ends up in heaven along with you, but then most of the Jews he murdered wind up in hell because they were Jews not Christian, that wouldn't bother you?

No. Not at all. It's not unlike Trump. I believe that God wants Trump just like he wants all of us. Even Hitler. Even me, Gad. That was the whole point of the Cross.

[Jersey Girl]

https://www.chick.com/products/tract?st ... vUQAvD_BwE

This is an important Evangelical teaching as indicated in the Chick Tract Holy Joe.

(spoiler alert for Shades)

Holy Joe is a new army recruit and a Christian, shares his faith with everyone, and his sergeant is furious, persecutes him, but Joe keeps a positive attitude. Joe also preaches to another soldier throughout the story, who ultimately tells Joe he isn't interested, that he thinks he lived a good life and will be okay. Joe's unassailable faith pushes his sergeant to the breaking point, and he sends Joe into a combat situation way above his skill level in order to get him killed.

Joe falls to the trap and is killed immediately. The Sergeant and the other soldier go in to find him dead, but then find themselves surrounded. The soldier tries to escape while the sergeant is struck by the look of peace on Joes face and instead of running, falls to his knees and accepts Jesus just before he his killed as is the soldier who ran. The soldier who ran, who lived a good life but wasn't interested, is dropped into hell. The sergeant who set up Joe to be killed is welcomed into heaven.

IWMP -- you should share this Chick tract with your friends.

Stop. It.

[huckelberry]

I think it is sure that a saving acceptance of Jesus is a deeper realization and desire than a momentary verbal ejaculation. To see those murdered Jews as in Hell is a monstrosity out of the very pit of Hell.

[Jersey Girl]

I've gotta go through your post to reply because there's a lot of moving parts going on there I think. We'll see...

... Did you ever feel like why do these later converts get to go to heaven when they've spent all their life sinning and I've worked hard much longer?

No. Because I don't see that it's about work or working harder or longer...to do what? It's about faith and the turning of one's heart to the Lord. That's the short version I guess. Feel free to question me if that's not clear.

(I don't see it like this and I've adapted this to be relevant here). The evangelists I have met with recently have this view and I felt alien when they were discussing it because I don't know see it like that at all.

Yeah, I don't get that at all either. I think it's actually contrary to what the Bible presents.

Edit: or even now, if you still are Christian do you think like that?

No, I haven't ever thought of it that way. I have questioned...the early death of some folks. For example, there was a man in my former SB Church. He was a big burly guy, a gentle giant. He had SO many gifts to share. He was an ordained minister but not a minister in the church but one of our deacons. He sang and played the guitar so well. He and his wife lead the Youth Ministry...he was like a giant kid in a way, able to relate to the youth but also adults. Always helping someone. Always ready to give of himself. Owned his own electrician business with a great reputation in the church and community. Had relationships with Air Force Cadets...sponsored them and "adopted" them as a mentor while they were in school here.

He left out early one morning in his pick up truck after a snow to do a job up in the mountains. As I understand it, the roads were dry. Swerved to miss an oncoming car and crashed his truck. Either he wasn't wearing his seatbelt or the weight of him broke it, he was thrown from the truck and died at the scene from head trauma. Left a wife and 2 kids behind. And I admit I asked God many times why him? WHY him? Why did he have to leave this world when he was so involved in serving so many people in so many ways? When he was such a fine example of a Christian man, husband, father, such a good influence on youth?

That's the kind of thing I question that always leads to the next question...well Jersey, who and what family would you wish it on?

And the answer is nobody.

Kind of in keeping with your original question, what about those later converts? Would I wish hell or eternal separation from God on them because they didn't serve as long as the next guy?

No. I wouldn't.

Because it's not about longevity of service. It's about the Cross. It's a free gift for those who accept it. Not a score card.

[Jersey Girl]

I think it is sure that a saving acceptance of Jesus is a deeper realization and desire than a momentary verbal ejaculation. To see those murdered Jews as in Hell is a monstrosity out of the very pit of Hell.

Yes, I agree. Pretty sure the Lord is able to discern the state of the heart.

[I Have Questions]

So if Adolf Hitler hurried and accepted Jesus right before he died (you don't know one way or the other) and ends up in heaven along with you, but then most of the Jews he murdered wind up in hell because they were Jews not Christian, that wouldn't bother you?

No. Not at all. It's not unlike Trump. I believe that God wants Trump just like he wants all of us. Even Hitler. Even me, Gad. That was the whole point of the Cross.

It wouldn't bother you that faithful Jews murdered by Hitler went to Hell because they died Jewish, whilst a death bed converting Hitler went to Heaven because he became Christian? Are you <insert expletive> serious?

[Moksha]

It wouldn't bother you that faithful Jews murdered by Hitler went to Hell because they died Jewish, whilst a death bed converting Hitler went to Heaven because he became Christian? Are you <insert expletive> serious?

I am uncertain that Jersey accepted the notion that Jews are going to hell.

Hitler has had his work done for him at least 8 times in LDS Temples and has probably been sealed to some women (besides Eva Braun) from Utah County.

[IWMP]

... Did you ever feel like why do these later converts get to go to heaven when they've spent all their life sinning and I've worked hard much longer?

(I don't see it like this and I've adapted this to be relevant here). The evangelists I have met with recently have this view and I felt alien when they were discussing it because I don't know see it like that at all.

Edit: or even now, if you still are Christian do you think like that?

So if Adolf Hitler hurried and accepted Jesus right before he died (you don't know one way or the other) and ends up in heaven along with you, but then most of the Jews he murdered wind up in hell because they were Jews not Christian, that wouldn't bother you?

Well when you put it like that... But they were talking about every day people. I personally don't believe Jews would go to hell for not being Christian. But that's a good point.

[IWMP]

I've gotta go through your post to reply because there's a lot of moving parts going on there I think. We'll see...

... Did you ever feel like why do these later converts get to go to heaven when they've spent all their life sinning and I've worked hard much longer?

No. Because I don't see that it's about work or working harder or longer...to do what? It's about faith and the turning of one's heart to the Lord. That's the short version I guess. Feel free to question me if that's not clear.

(I don't see it like this and I've adapted this to be relevant here). The evangelists I have met with recently have this view and I felt alien when they were discussing it because I don't know see it like that at all.

Yeah, I don't get that at all either. I think it's actually contrary to what the Bible presents.

Edit: or even now, if you still are Christian do you think like that?

No, I haven't ever thought of it that way. I have questioned...the early death of some folks. For example, there was a man in my former SB Church. He was a big burly guy, a gentle giant. He had SO many gifts to share. He was an ordained minister but not a minister in the church but one of our deacons. He sang and played the guitar so well. He and his wife lead the Youth Ministry...he was like a giant kid in a way, able to relate to the youth but also adults. Always helping someone. Always ready to give of himself. Owned his own electrician business with a great reputation in the church and community. Had relationships with Air Force Cadets...sponsored them and "adopted" them as a mentor while they were in school here.

He left out early one morning in his pick up truck after a snow to do a job up in the mountains. As I understand it, the roads were dry. Swerved to miss an oncoming car and crashed his truck. Either he wasn't wearing his seatbelt or the weight of him broke it, he was thrown from the truck and died at the scene from head trauma. Left a wife and 2 kids behind. And I admit I asked God many times why him? WHY him? Why did he have to leave this world when he was so involved in serving so many people in so many ways? When he was such a fine example of a Christian man, husband, father, such a good influence on youth?

That's the kind of thing I question that always leads to the next question...well Jersey, who and what family would you wish it on?

And the answer is nobody.

Kind of in keeping with your original question, what about those later converts? Would I wish hell or eternal separation from God on them because they didn't serve as long as the next guy?

No. I wouldn't.

Because it's not about longevity of service. It's about the Cross. It's a free gift for those who accept it. Not a score card.

Thank you for sharing this. I think it's relative. My thoughts were, aren't they more blessed because they had faith longer and had that positivity and hope helping them in their lives? I think it would be pretty hard to genuinely truly turn to God towards the end of your days knowing you have less time because somewhere inside you'd have to wonder if it's genuine or through fear. They sort of described it almost as if they've lost out in life.

I do think that we humans on earth feel that death is a bad thing but if it can lead onto something more, then maybe it isn't a bad thing and maybe we just feel like it is because we are seeing the loss and the sadness.