Texas flooding

[sock puppet]

That's what is really sick to me. He actually bragged about this incredibly convenient 'out' he gave himself. Talk about drawing the bullseye everywhere and anywhere the arrow falls.

This is the talk Bednar gave at the devotional in 2013

Three months later, John underwent a surgical procedure to remove a large tumor in his leg. Two days following the operation, I visited John and Heather in the hospital. We talked about the first time I met John in the mission field, about their marriage, about the cancer, and about the eternally important lessons we learn through the trials of mortality. As we concluded our time together, John asked if I would give him a priesthood blessing. I responded that I gladly would give such a blessing, but I first needed to ask some questions.
I then posed questions I had not planned to ask and had never previously considered: “John, do you have the faith not to be healed? If it is the will of our Heavenly Father that you are transferred by death in your youth to the spirit world to continue your ministry, do you have the faith to submit to His will and not be healed?”

Let's take a page out of Bednar's playbook. Let's give him and the other 14 pretenders a blessing to have the faith to return all tithing payments to prior payers.

[MG 2.0]

That's what is really sick to me. He actually bragged about this incredibly convenient 'out' he gave himself. Talk about drawing the bullseye everywhere and anywhere the arrow falls.

This is the talk Bednar gave at the devotional in 2013

Three months later, John underwent a surgical procedure to remove a large tumor in his leg. Two days following the operation, I visited John and Heather in the hospital. We talked about the first time I met John in the mission field, about their marriage, about the cancer, and about the eternally important lessons we learn through the trials of mortality. As we concluded our time together, John asked if I would give him a priesthood blessing. I responded that I gladly would give such a blessing, but I first needed to ask some questions.
I then posed questions I had not planned to ask and had never previously considered: “John, do you have the faith not to be healed? If it is the will of our Heavenly Father that you are transferred by death in your youth to the spirit world to continue your ministry, do you have the faith to submit to His will and not be healed?”

That is a big ask

Regards,
MG

[Chap]

That's what is really sick to me. He actually bragged about this incredibly convenient 'out' he gave himself. Talk about drawing the bullseye everywhere and anywhere the arrow falls.

This is the talk Bednar gave at the devotional in 2013

Three months later, John underwent a surgical procedure to remove a large tumor in his leg. Two days following the operation, I visited John and Heather in the hospital. We talked about the first time I met John in the mission field, about their marriage, about the cancer, and about the eternally important lessons we learn through the trials of mortality. As we concluded our time together, John asked if I would give him a priesthood blessing. I responded that I gladly would give such a blessing, but I first needed to ask some questions.
I then posed questions I had not planned to ask and had never previously considered: “John, do you have the faith not to be healed? If it is the will of our Heavenly Father that you are transferred by death in your youth to the spirit world to continue your ministry, do you have the faith to submit to His will and not be healed?”

That is a big ask

What if the poor man was to say "Actually, that is a big ask. I don't think I can measure up to that demand, and quite frankly I want to stay alive. So, elder please give me a blessing to that effect like elders normally do."

Would that mean, according to Bednar, that the Mormon deity would, in his disappointment at this response, turn the 'response to blessing' dial to "do not heal"? It all sounds so tacky ...

[malkie]

This is the talk Bednar gave at the devotional in 2013

That is a big ask

What if the poor man was to say "Actually, that is a big ask. I don't think I can measure up to that demand, and quite frankly I want to stay alive. So, elder please give me a blessing to that effect like elders normally do."

Would that mean, according to Bednar, that the Mormon deity would, in his disappointment at this response, turn the 'response to blessing' dial to "do not heal"? It all sounds so tacky ...

Is that one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" propositions?

Faith not to be healed = not healed because of your faith
No faith not to be healed = not healed due to lack of faith

[I Have Questions]

What if the poor man was to say "Actually, that is a big ask. I don't think I can measure up to that demand, and quite frankly I want to stay alive. So, elder please give me a blessing to that effect like elders normally do."

Would that mean, according to Bednar, that the Mormon deity would, in his disappointment at this response, turn the 'response to blessing' dial to "do not heal"? It all sounds so tacky ...

Is that one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" propositions?

Faith not to be healed = not healed because of your faith
No faith not to be healed = not healed due to lack of faith

I suppose the other thing to consider is that, if the outcome is entirely up to God based upon the faith of the individual, regardless of what blessing is given, then what is the purpose of the blessing (and the person carrying out the blessing) as it has no bearing on influencing the outcome? The same applies to prayer. If God will send or withhold rain based on His own will at any point of time, then what is the benefit of praying for rain, or praying for rain to stop. God will do whatever He wants regardless.
In regards to the situation of the tragic (and from what I'm reading, entirely preventable) deaths of the young children at Camp Mystic, God could have chosen to stop the rain and prevent the flooding and prevent the deaths, regardless or prayers one way or the other. But He made a conscious choice not to. However, if you take the view that God cannot intervene physically in this world for whatever reason (people's agency, the way he set up creation etc) then again, what is the point of praying to someone for physical intervention if you know they cannot physically intervene?

[Rivendale]

Is that one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" propositions?

Faith not to be healed = not healed because of your faith
No faith not to be healed = not healed due to lack of faith

I suppose the other thing to consider is that, if the outcome is entirely up to God based upon the faith of the individual, regardless of what blessing is given, then what is the purpose of the blessing (and the person carrying out the blessing) as it has no bearing on influencing the outcome? The same applies to prayer. If God will send or withhold rain based on His own will at any point of time, then what is the benefit of praying for rain, or praying for rain to stop. God will do whatever He wants regardless.
In regards to the situation of the tragic (and from what I'm reading, entirely preventable) deaths of the young children at Camp Mystic, God could have chosen to stop the rain and prevent the flooding and prevent the deaths, regardless or prayers one way or the other. But He made a conscious choice not to. However, if you take the view that God cannot intervene physically in this world for whatever reason (people's agency, the way he set up creation etc) then again, what is the point of praying to someone for physical intervention if you know they cannot physically intervene?

There seems to be a shift over the past 5 to 10 years to change the petionary prayer (because of the issues you mentioned) to a conciliatory one. People say they pray to align themselves with God's will. Similar things were done with the get your own planet scenario. Instead of becoming a god it is said that you become like God. Weird dynamics are at play and are probably part of the rebranding and a host of everlasting thought stoppers have been released to stop the hemorrhaging of members. Hold onto the rod has morphed to covenant path. Ministering replaced home teaching and I am a Mormon became heretical.