Mass Shooting at Mormon Church In Michigan

[drumdude]

I am very sorry to hear of what appears to be a horrible act of violence against peaceful people and their children, to all appearances simply because they were Mormons.

While the man who committed the acts is culpable for them, we must ask who it was who planted the ideas in his mind that led him to think that what he did was right and good.

Sometimes it just comes down to mental illness. If this guy served in Iraq and suffered brain injuries, that wasn't really the fault of anyone speaking today, 20 years later.

The University of Texas school shooter in the 1960's jumps immediately to mind as the example case. He suspected he had a brain tumor and he was correct.

[Limnor]

I’ve never done one of those intro threads, but I’m a veteran. Granted, I’m not a “pew pew” veteran, but was a targeting officer onboard an aircraft carrier during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

I still work for the gummint, so, because of the Hatch Act, I try to avoid political discussions.

[Tom]

A news source, citing police, reports four deaths (not including the shooter) now.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2025/09/inve ... -fire.html

[Kishkumen]

I’ve never done one of those intro threads, but I’m a veteran. Granted, I’m not a “pew pew” veteran, but was a targeting officer onboard an aircraft carrier during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

I still work for the gummint, so, because of the Hatch Act, I try to avoid political discussions,

Welcome to DM, Limnor! It is nice to have new friends in our discussions. My dad was not military, but he spent his career in the federal government.

[Limnor]

Thank you Kish! I’m a long time lurker, some time poster over the years. I formerly posted under the monikers Abinadi’s Fire and Alma Bound.

If you are interested, I’d welcome feedback on the codex/allegory thread and within the AI thread.

I think when people become disillusioned with the LDS Church, they tend to avoid the Book of Mormon and/or simply accept that the book reflects the cultural milieu surrounding Joseph - typically the reflections of Joseph’s life in Nephi and Mormon are cited as Joseph “writing himself into the book.” I’ve made a long hobby of exploring the other characters as reflecting Joseph’s companions in the book, and would be interested in your thoughts.

While I tend to agree with Twain’s comment that the book is “chloroform in print,” when I read it from an alternate perspective I see it as a murder mystery.

I’d welcome your thoughts.

[Chap]

I am very sorry to hear of what appears to be a horrible act of violence against peaceful people and their children, to all appearances simply because they were Mormons.

While the man who committed the acts is culpable for them, we must ask who it was who planted the ideas in his mind that led him to think that what he did was right and good.

Sometimes it just comes down to mental illness. If this guy served in Iraq and suffered brain injuries, that wasn't really the fault of anyone speaking today, 20 years later.

The University of Texas school shooter in the 1960's jumps immediately to mind as the example case. He suspected he had a brain tumor and he was correct.

Sometimes it might be an illness, physical or mental, that leads to the crime being committed. But quite frankly, I think that in the majority of cases in the USA we have to look at two factors:

1. The increasing prevalence of violent and threatening speech in connection with political ideology.
2. The fact that the availability of high-power rapid fire military style weapons in the USA is (to somebody from almost any other advanced western country) horrifyingly easy.

I have the impression that talking about mental illness each time there is a mass shooting is quite often a means of diverting attention from the obviousness of point 2 as an explanation of why there are so many mass shotings in the USA compared with other countries.

May I note, too, the undisputed fact that right-wing inspired political violence is much higher than it is in the left-wing case? Since factor 2 operates equalling for right and left, if one wants to avoid the conclusion that right-wing people are more liable to mental illness, one is left with factor 1, suggesting right-wing political discourse really needs to dial down the anger.

[Doctor Steuss]

The shooter's identity has been released. I saw a handful of posts on "X" following Kirk's murder, calling for retribution against Mormons. Hopefully this wasn't an answer to that call, and is a one-off. The thing with violent rhetoric is that there's almost always someone mentally unstable listening.

[drumdude]

Sometimes it just comes down to mental illness. If this guy served in Iraq and suffered brain injuries, that wasn't really the fault of anyone speaking today, 20 years later.

The University of Texas school shooter in the 1960's jumps immediately to mind as the example case. He suspected he had a brain tumor and he was correct.

Sometimes it might be an illness, physical or mental, that leads to the crime being committed. But quite frankly, I think that in the majority of cases in the USA we have to look at two factors:

1. The increasing prevalence of violent and threatening speech in connection with political ideology.
2. The fact that the availability of high-power rapid fire military style weapons in the USA is (to somebody from almost any other advanced western country) horrifyingly easy.

I have the impression that talking about mental illness each time there is a mass shooting is quite often a means of diverting attention from the obviousness of point 2 as an explanation of why there are so many mass shootings in the USA compared with other countries.

May I note, too, the undisputed fact that right-wing inspired political violence is much higher than it is in the left-wing case? Since factor 2 operates equalling for right and left, if one wants to avoid the conclusion that right-wing people are more liable to mental illness, one is left with factor 1, suggesting right-wing political discourse really needs to dial down the anger.

I definitely agree, and of course it can be a combination of mental illness with the political rhetoric as something to latch that illness on to.

In general, MAGA and Mormons don’t seem to have much bad blood between them, and seem very aligned. I think this guy would have had to go down a lot of evangelical hate filled rabbit holes to get to a message that says Mormons need to be killed for Jesus. I can’t imagine many Christians out there hold that view.

[Abaddon]

Where is all the outrage for this in MAGA-land? Where are the half-mast flags?

Where are "We are [Mormons]" slogans on social media for the victims?

God, I can't stand the MAGA-cult.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

The POS shot kids. Who are these people?

I guess there is an actual term for these people, MAGA Maniacs:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 216984.cms

https://upstract.com/x/aff3086569c4837f

https://www.thedailybeast.com/karoline- ... d-Mormons/