The Long and Winding Road (To Ruin) or Eight Days a Week (Of Woe): Mormon Apostle Blames the Beatles for Society's Ills

[Shulem]

The Apostle Paul referred to a multi-tiered heaven.

No he didn't. He used the the bodies of men, animals, birds and fish, sun, moon and stars as an examples of how things differ in "glory" (doxa), but when it comes to the point with regard to resurrected bodies, there are only two kinds of bodies for humans: the earthly and the heavenly. Those with the heavenly have the image of heavenly. Coupled with other teachings of Paul (e.g., Galatians 3, Collosians 2, Ephesian 2), it is clear that Paul had nothing in mind such as separate heavens or "degrees of glory." The "sons of God" are all equal, fully exalted and co-equal with Christ.

Joe and Sydney just didn't understand New Testament theology all that well.

Pretty much right you are! Smith took things to a new level in making levels of glory for the hereafter. He mirrored that concept into the church hierarchy with levels of priesthood and racism.

The doctrine of Three Degrees of Glory is disgusting -- worldly thinking, mind control, threatening, and utterly untrue.

[Shulem]

As I said, I don't think any one of us has much to worry about in regard to a hoped for afterlife. We will get want we want and deserve based upon our choices/actions/desires/abilities, etc.

And what every man with a physical body wants is to have a fully functioning penis. Mormonism only gives *that* to those who do extra and perform all the worldly service they are told to do by the cult leaders. Otherwise, it's limp shrimp in the hereafter.

Screw you, MG, and your silly religion.

I KNOW Mormonism is false. I absolutely know it.

[MG 2.0]

Jesus taught that in His Father's house are many mansions.

Despite the KJV translators, (They did the best they knew how at the time), Koine μονή simply means "a place to reside", "a place to make your living space." A bedroom qualifies. In the first century individual rooms in a house were called μονή.

In the very same chapter of John, version 23, "Jesus" uses μονή again, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our μονή with him."

There is no implication whatsoever of separate "heavens" implied.

The Apostle Paul referred to a multi-tiered heaven.

No he didn't. He used the the bodies of men, animals, birds and fish, sun, moon and stars as an examples of how things differ in "glory" (doxa), but when it comes to the point with regard to resurrected bodies, there are only two kinds of bodies for humans: the earthly and the heavenly. Those with the heavenly have the image of heavenly. Coupled with other teachings of Paul (e.g., Galatians 3, Collosians 2, Ephesian 2), it is clear that Paul had nothing in mind such as separate heavens or "degrees of glory." The "sons of God" are all equal, fully exalted and co-equal with Christ.

Joe and Sydney just didn't understand New Testament theology all that well.

https://scripturecentral.org/knowhy/wha ... s-of-glory

It's not cut and dried.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Jesus taught that in His Father's house are many mansions.

Despite the KJV translators, (They did the best they knew how at the time), Koine μονή simply means "a place to reside", "a place to make your living space." A bedroom qualifies. In the first century individual rooms in a house were called μονή.

In the very same chapter of John, version 23, "Jesus" uses μονή again, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our μονή with him."

There is no implication whatsoever of separate "heavens" implied.

The Apostle Paul referred to a multi-tiered heaven.

No he didn't. He used the the bodies of men, animals, birds and fish, sun, moon and stars as an examples of how things differ in "glory" (doxa), but when it comes to the point with regard to resurrected bodies, there are only two kinds of bodies for humans: the earthly and the heavenly. Those with the heavenly have the image of heavenly. Coupled with other teachings of Paul (e.g., Galatians 3, Collosians 2, Ephesian 2), it is clear that Paul had nothing in mind such as separate heavens or "degrees of glory." The "sons of God" are all equal, fully exalted and co-equal with Christ.

Joe and Sydney just didn't understand New Testament theology all that well.

Along with Origen what did these early Church Fathers have to say about multiple heavens?

Irenaeus
Clement of Alexandria
Tertullian
Philo of Alexandria

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

It's not cut and dried.

How about the king's name, is that cut and dried? What does Scripture Central have to say (lie) about that? Is it not so that Scripture Central tells lots of lies? I think they do.

What about “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.”

What’s the name?

x______Name____________________

Checkmate, Scripture Central!

U lose.

[Shulem]

Along with Origen what did these early Church Fathers have to say about multiple heavens?

Irenaeus
Clement of Alexandria
Tertullian
Philo of Alexandria

What difference does that make when directly referencing biblical text?

[bill4long]

Despite the KJV translators, (They did the best they knew how at the time), Koine μονή simply means "a place to reside", "a place to make your living space." A bedroom qualifies. In the first century individual rooms in a house were called μονή.

In the very same chapter of John, version 23, "Jesus" uses μονή again, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our μονή with him."

There is no implication whatsoever of separate "heavens" implied.

No he didn't. He used the the bodies of men, animals, birds and fish, sun, moon and stars as an examples of how things differ in "glory" (doxa), but when it comes to the point with regard to resurrected bodies, there are only two kinds of bodies for humans: the earthly and the heavenly. Those with the heavenly have the image of heavenly. Coupled with other teachings of Paul (e.g., Galatians 3, Collosians 2, Ephesian 2), it is clear that Paul had nothing in mind such as separate heavens or "degrees of glory." The "sons of God" are all equal, fully exalted and co-equal with Christ.

Joe and Sydney just didn't understand New Testament theology all that well.

https://scripturecentral.org/knowhy/wha ... s-of-glory

It's not cut and dried.

Regards,
MG

Yawn, good Lord. Before I deal with Scripture Central (LOL), the "church fathers", and Nibley, let me ask you: are you committed to Joseph Smith and your Brighamite religion no matter what? And are you willing to agree that a single contradiction with regard to a truth claim is enough to falsify it?

I'll ask it this way: are you one of those types, who if on the reception of a brand new $100 bill, would still accept it as geniune, and focus on all the "perfect things" about it, even if someone pointed out that the signature on the bill was "Mickey Mouse"?

[I Have Questions]

Despite the KJV translators, (They did the best they knew how at the time), Koine μονή simply means "a place to reside", "a place to make your living space." A bedroom qualifies. In the first century individual rooms in a house were called μονή.

In the very same chapter of John, version 23, "Jesus" uses μονή again, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our μονή with him."

There is no implication whatsoever of separate "heavens" implied.

No he didn't. He used the the bodies of men, animals, birds and fish, sun, moon and stars as an examples of how things differ in "glory" (doxa), but when it comes to the point with regard to resurrected bodies, there are only two kinds of bodies for humans: the earthly and the heavenly. Those with the heavenly have the image of heavenly. Coupled with other teachings of Paul (e.g., Galatians 3, Collosians 2, Ephesian 2), it is clear that Paul had nothing in mind such as separate heavens or "degrees of glory." The "sons of God" are all equal, fully exalted and co-equal with Christ.

Joe and Sydney just didn't understand New Testament theology all that well.

https://scripturecentral.org/knowhy/wha ... s-of-glory

It's not cut and dried.

Regards,
MG

This is a link and run post. You’re supposed to provide sufficient detail from any link to allow the reader to make an informed decision about whether or not to click on it. You’ve failed to do so. Despite being warned on multiple occasions about this very thing. Stop being so lazy.

Board Rule: “Do not EVER "link-and-run." If you post a link to something, always describe its content with enough detail so readers can know, in advance, whether it's worth their time to click on it. (Ideally, explain what's at the other end of it, why it's important, and what you hope other readers / viewers learn from it.) RULE OF THUMB: If it's not worth your time to describe it, then it's not worth our time to click on it.”

[bill4long]

https://scripturecentral.org/knowhy/wha ... s-of-glory

It's not cut and dried.

Regards,
MG

This is a link and run post. You’re supposed to provide sufficient detail from any link to allow the reader to make an informed decision about whether or not to click on it. You’ve failed to do so. Despite being warned on multiple occasions about this very thing. Stop being so lazy.

The article is ridiculous, Nibley was a Biblical hack, and I can tear that article to shreds. But I would like see him try to defend the points in it in his own words, and answer my last question, before I waste much time.

MG, when you cite a source, unless you just want to look like a lazy trollish clown, you better be willing to defend it. Are you interested in taking things to a scholarly level? Or are you just here trying to make yourself feel good about you beliefs without doing any heavy lifting?

[sock puppet]

If you're among the people who believe the song, Here Comes the Sun, is actually about the Military Industrial Complex, or that the album Abbey Road harbors a hidden agenda to turn all the youth gay, then the Mormon church might just be the place for you.

The Mormon church has nurtured a genuine, and frankly baffling, distaste for the Beatles—yes, those Beatles. We're talking about the timeless, brilliant pinnacle of musical genius. Who hates the Beatles? It defies common sense!

Who can forget the time Thomas S. Monson, in a General Conference address, felt compelled to criticize their song, All You Need Is Love. Even more peculiar is the ongoing, bizarre obsession the Afore has with criticizing John Lennon's song Imagine, in post after plagiarized post.

This dislike is further documented in Michael Quinn's Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, where it is noted that on April 24, 1981, Apostle David B. Haight gave the keynote address at the Annual Meeting of the Utah Association of Women. Elder Haight stated, "Many of today's problems can be traced to the music of the Beatles in the early 1960s. I witnessed the early developing of protests on college campuses, protests against the Vietnam War, with protestors using Beatle-type music to express their feelings against our government, against our military, and against authority in general."

Many of today's problems can be traced to the music of the Beatles? Protests on college campuses, against the Vietnam War? Expressing feelings against the government and authority? What in the hell was Elder David B. Haight smoking?

No wonder that the late Elder Gene Cook of the 70s (next tier down from the Q12) would go on to fabricate a self-aggrandizing story about sitting next to Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones on an airplane. Cook was just hyperbolating the theme his upstream, David B. Haight had set forth.