I find myself puzzled. Why would you think that Mormons do do not think Jesus really died. Such an observation has never before crossed my mind. If you just mean they think his spirit was active after his body died I would point out that is by far the most common Christian view of death. I realize that there is not a uniform Christian view of the matter. Some groups see waiting for resurrection with no conscious spirit in between. I have not heard this line of thought applied to Jesus but I suppose it could be but to what import?
I don’t think Mormons deny that Jesus’ body died, Huck, and I apologize if I gave that impression. The difference I’m trying to get at is what “death” means within the theology. In Christianity, death is generally considered a real rupture, the body and soul are torn apart, and that rupture itself is what resurrection overcomes. In Mormonism, spirits are eternal intelligences and death is more like a temporary disembodiment.
So while both traditions can say Jesus’ spirit left His body after death, Christianity treats death as something genuinely broken, whereas Mormonism treats it as a transition that was never really final. That difference matters because it changes what resurrection is actually accomplishing.
. We will find solace/joy in knowing she is in a better place
So she won't be dead, correct? How can she dead, but also in a better place?
Don't Mormons believe in a general salvation? Meaning everyone who has ever lived on earth will be reunited with their perfected body?
Watch what I do here and tell me if you agree please.
1. In the pre existence we are composed of an intelligence and spirit.
2. On earth we are body, intelligence and spirit.
3. In the spirit world we are an intelligence and spirit.
4. After the resurrection we are body, intelligence and spirit.
Would you agree with 1-4? If so, then when were we ever "dead"
This is interesting, thanks.
Thinking through points 1–4, it reads like in LDS theology death is never really the loss of life itself, but a temporary change in embodiment. A person is never truly “dead” in the way Paul speaks of death as an enemy.
Is there an understanding of “victory” over death in Mormonism?
So she won't be dead, correct? How can she dead, but also in a better place?
Don't Mormons believe in a general salvation? Meaning everyone who has ever lived on earth will be reunited with their perfected body?
Watch what I do here and tell me if you agree please.
1. In the pre existence we are composed of an intelligence and spirit.
2. On earth we are body, intelligence and spirit.
3. In the spirit world we are an intelligence and spirit.
4. After the resurrection we are body, intelligence and spirit.
Would you agree with 1-4? If so, then when were we ever "dead"
This is interesting, thanks.
Thinking through points 1–4, it reads like in LDS theology death is never really the loss of life itself, but a temporary change in embodiment. A person is never truly “dead” in the way Paul speaks of death as an enemy.
Is there an understanding of “victory” over death in Mormonism?
This draws from me another question. If we lived with God before we came to earth, and that an earthly body was required so that we might experience earthly existence, why are we subsequently reunited with a seemingly unnecessary vessel of flesh and blood after we have returned to the eternal realm from which we came?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
One of the reasons I like coming to Mormon forums, especially this one, is Mormons and ex-Mormons really make me think about belief itself, and refine what I personally believe.
In this case, Gad has challenged me to think about “Did Jesus really die according to Christianity? He did if he doesn't have a spirit counterpart.”
I’ve been thinking about a distinction—or if there is a distinction—between what animates a person, what gives a person life, and who a person is.
In the Genesis version, God forms the human from dust and breathes into him the breath or spirit of life, and the human becomes a living being. The logic is a person is not a body alone, nor is a person spirit alone, but rather a combination of the two.
So that spirit of life is what makes life happen, not a separate mini-person that “is” the person. You don’t “have” a soul the way you possess something, rather you “are” a living soul when God’s breath animates you. That spirit is what makes a body alive rather than dead, it’s not a prepackaged “you” waiting to be inserted.
I think that’s why Genesis says “became a living being,” and not “received a living being.”
At death, within this logic, the spirit/breath returns to God, and the body returns to dust. It’s describing the absence of life, not a person walking away intact—the person is no longer whole, and that’s why death is still death, even though the spirit doesn’t cease to exist. The spirit that leaves the body is really you, but not fully you, a complete you. In Mormon thought, the spirit is already you, inserted into a body, and the spirit that leaves the body is essentially a complete you waiting for your body to be resurrected.
There are secondary lines of thought that come from these differences in logic. For instance, is the body necessary to who you are, or only necessary for what you can become? If death is not truly perilous or bad, is life really at risk? What is there to be saved from? Salvation, rather than being saved from something bad or perilous, becomes being saved from remaining less than what one could become.
In my profession, there is a best practice of never introducing a new thought at the end of a brief, but I’m going to ignore that for now, because I see another implication. The implication is that Mormon thought seems to contain insertion of Greek thought more so than Christianity in this area. Greek thought portrays the soul as the true self and the body as temporary, making death a kind of release. Which seems similar to Mormon thought, at least on the surface. Paul objected to that Greek thought, or at least paints a different interpretation.
Still thinking through all of this, but appreciate the replies so far.
Thinking through points 1–4, it reads like in LDS theology death is never really the loss of life itself, but a temporary change in embodiment. A person is never truly “dead” in the way Paul speaks of death as an enemy.
Is there an understanding of “victory” over death in Mormonism?
This draws from me another question. If we lived with God before we came to earth, and that an earthly body was required so that we might experience earthly existence, why are we subsequently reunited with a seemingly unnecessary vessel of flesh and blood after we have returned to the eternal realm from which we came?
So many questions…
If intelligences are eternal, why would you need eternal procreation in the afterlife? Couldn’t the spirits just go into bodies without eternal procreation? It’s not like you are creating those intelligences—or am I missing something? Why do intelligences need “pre-bodies” before coming to earth? Is intelligence already a person, or does it only become a person once organized into a spirit body?
I remember the idea that gaining a body and living here was a big opportunity. It is understood to be a big I crease in the scope of life. In comparison an intelligence by itself is a limited life if alive at all. Sounds a bit like a seed. I have never heard. Mormons claim losing a body a positive.
Parent stiff and cold laid out in the relief society room fits my Idea of death.
Please explain when we lose our body once we receive it. I was never taught that as a Mormon.
Actually, from what I remember, Mormonism teaches there's no way to lose your body, once one is born here on earth.
Is there an understanding of “victory” over death in Mormonism?
In Mormonism there is no death, therefore there can be no victory over it. The only concept of "death" in Mormonism, is the death of your eternal progression. Not really a "death", though, more of being like stuck or halted.
Is there an understanding of “victory” over death in Mormonism?
In Mormonism there is no death, therefore there can be no victory over it. The only concept of "death" in Mormonism, is the death of your eternal progression. Not really a "death", though, more of being like stuck or halted.
I think you’re right, though I’ve never heard it explicitly explained as such. Maybe I missed it or misunderstood the intended meaning of the words used.
I remember the idea that gaining a body and living here was a big opportunity. It is understood to be a big I crease in the scope of life. In comparison an intelligence by itself is a limited life if alive at all. Sounds a bit like a seed. I have never heard. Mormons claim losing a body a positive.
Parent stiff and cold laid out in the relief society room fits my Idea of death.
Please explain when we lose our body once we receive it. I was never taught that as a Mormon.
Actually, from what I remember, Mormonism teaches there's no way to lose your body, once one is born here on earth.
Hound, I was thinking of that time when life stops for your body and people put your body in a box and bury it in the ground.
Please explain when we lose our body once we receive it. I was never taught that as a Mormon.
Actually, from what I remember, Mormonism teaches there's no way to lose your body, once one is born here on earth.
Hound, I was thinking of that time when life stops for your body and people put your body in a box and bury it in the ground.
Yes, I understood you're meaning. But please follow my reasoning for a second, if you would.
Joseph taught that the elements are eternal. That which has a beginning will surely have and end, but that which had no beginning will have no end.
Joseph outright rejected the traditional view of ex nihilo, instead he taught that God organizes preexisting matter. In my opinion, this means that matter is co eternal with God, they were never created, therefore, they cannot be destroyed.
Am I over complicating this subject?
If im understanding you correctly, you're defining death as the separation of the physical and spiritual body.
