WHO or WHICH is most important?

[Limnor]

What parts?

Lots of parts, but, primarily the parts where Jesus is said to declare himself as a sacrificial savior in which humanity and the world would or could be saved through him. That was not his mission nor his purpose. Remove those things from the four gospels and you will get much closer to what he actually taught and believed. But even Jesus was not perfect and made mistakes.

I would love to read one of his original manuscripts, written by his own hand upon scrolls. Too bad they do not exist.

Why do you think Jesus was executed (if you do)? What do you do with John 14 and 15? Are those later insertions too?

[Shulem]

Lots of parts, but, primarily the parts where Jesus is said to declare himself as a sacrificial savior in which humanity and the world would or could be saved through him. That was not his mission nor his purpose. Remove those things from the four gospels and you will get much closer to what he actually taught and believed. But even Jesus was not perfect and made mistakes.

I would love to read one of his original manuscripts, written by his own hand upon scrolls. Too bad they do not exist.

Why do you think Jesus was executed (if you do)? What do you do with John 14 and 15? Are those later insertions too?

Insertions, galore.

Historically, according to Josephus, there was a man named Jesus, a wise man and a teacher. Was he really condemned to die on a cross for a religious cause? Perhaps. Did he live again? No, that was religious fiction designed to glorify him and give cause for the sect to shift and move on. Scant Roman documentation/records does seem to confirm that Jesus suffered the death penalty under judgement of governor Pontius Pilate. Jews were subject to Roman law and criminal acts thereunder would incur appropriate punishment affixed thereto. Therefore, Jesus must have broke the law and was perceived as a criminal.

I hope that answers your questions.

[Limnor]

Why do you think Jesus was executed (if you do)? What do you do with John 14 and 15? Are those later insertions too?

Insertions, galore.

Historically, according to Josephus, there was a man named Jesus, a wise man and a teacher. Was he really condemned to die on a cross for a religious cause? Perhaps. Did he live again? No, that was religious fiction designed to glorify him and give cause for the sect to shift and move on. Scant Roman documentation/records does seem to confirm that Jesus suffered the death penalty under judgement of governor Pontius Pilate. Jews were subject to Roman law and criminal acts thereunder would incur appropriate punishment affixed thereto. Therefore, Jesus must have broke the law and was perceived as a criminal.

I hope that answers your questions.

Partially.

I’m interested in your methodology, too. I’ve been working for a while on a reconstruction of the Book of Mormon using real-world persons inserted into the story as characters—so I wonder if there are some similar thought processes.

For example, when you call John 14–15 “insertions,” what evidence leads you to that conclusion? There seem to be clear insertions of large parts of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon, so I wonder if there is similar evidence to support your conclusions. I’ve relied heavily on literary analysis for my hypothesis as well, so I wonder if that’s part of your method.

What makes you think John 14/15 don’t fit what you think the historical Jesus taught? And if your assessed insertions are removed, what would you see as the reconstruction of Jesus original message?

[Shulem]

Insertions, galore.

Historically, according to Josephus, there was a man named Jesus, a wise man and a teacher. Was he really condemned to die on a cross for a religious cause? Perhaps. Did he live again? No, that was religious fiction designed to glorify him and give cause for the sect to shift and move on. Scant Roman documentation/records does seem to confirm that Jesus suffered the death penalty under judgement of governor Pontius Pilate. Jews were subject to Roman law and criminal acts thereunder would incur appropriate punishment affixed thereto. Therefore, Jesus must have broke the law and was perceived as a criminal.

I hope that answers your questions.

Partially.

I’m interested in your methodology, too. I’ve been working for a while on a reconstruction of the Book of Mormon using real-world persons inserted into the story as characters—so I wonder if there are some similar thought processes.

I don’t know that I have one because it’s not a project in which I have undertaken in developing a scholarly work to present to others.

For example, when you call John 14–15 “insertions,” what evidence leads you to that conclusion? There seem to be clear insertions of large parts of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon, so I wonder if there is similar evidence to support your conclusions. I’ve relied heavily on literary analysis for my hypothesis as well, so I wonder if that’s part of your method.

I’m a New Ager, a Woke One, and am wrapping up my experience on this planet the best I can. My mission was to experience Mormonism and family life -- then to let go and embrace the I AM and kill the ego. Attacking Christianity is not my field of study but I have made many comments here on this board while experiencing my transformation.

What makes you think John 14/15 don’t fit what you think the historical Jesus taught? And if your assessed insertions are removed, what would you see as the reconstruction of Jesus original message?

I love the parable of the Good Samaritan and other teachings of Jesus that coincide with Buddha and other wise teachers. I think the writings of Jesus would have been all about loving yourself, fellow mankind, and God, as we are all one great whole. I give you my opinion that the New Testament is a doctored religious document created by men who really wanted to start a new religion, much like Joseph Smith, his family, and friends did.

I am not here to prove that. But I will say, Christ has not returned to fulfill biblical prophecy and I will bet any amount of money that he never does return during my lifetime. Will you take that bet?

[Limnor]

Ok that’s fair enough. Also no bet

[Shulem]

Ok that’s fair enough. Also no bet

okay

[LittleNipper]

Non-believers have far more and eternal ones in addition.

Of course, you will admit, that is your faith-based opinion which you cannot prove -- right NOW. It’s pure religious dogma.

I am not worried or concerned in the least bit.

Well obviously you are "not worried or concerned in the least bit." You are not on your death bed ------ yet...

[Shulem]

Of course, you will admit, that is your faith-based opinion which you cannot prove -- right NOW. It’s pure religious dogma.

I am not worried or concerned in the least bit.

Well obviously you are "not worried or concerned in the least bit." You are not on your death bed ------ yet...

So, it seems you are suggesting that a case of worry and concern may take place on my death bed. Okay, you are entitled to that opinion. I recognize this as a classic maneuver in which Christians use to scare people. But you know something, the situation in which you describe may actually occur with you, have you ever thought of that?

[LittleNipper]

Well obviously you are "not worried or concerned in the least bit." You are not on your death bed ------ yet...

So, it seems you are suggesting that a case of worry and concern may take place on my death bed. Okay, you are entitled to that opinion. I recognize this as a classic maneuver in which Christians use to scare people. But you know something, the situation in which you describe may actually occur with you, have you ever thought of that?

It's a very most logical consideration, and so it naturally comes up. Am I trying to "scare" you? I'm trying to make you think into the future. I'm trying to get you to reconsider what you decided is correct and secure and absolute. I didn't write the Bible. I have read the Bible, and other books. And the Bible shines forth like a beacon of light. Fishermen cannot make up some collaborating reality. GOD would not allow it to survive.