Sailing

[Chap]

I should mention that those of us who have connections with scientists in Europe are familiar with the descriptions of their situation given by visiting scientists from the US. Some of these have travelled to Europe simply to let their colleagues know the strength of the efforts being made by the Trump administration to bring the whole idea of universities as centres for free research and publication to an end. Instead, some of them say, Trump and his facilitators want to move research into opaque 'tech labs' run for profit only, with no open sharing of research results.

Some of these visitors are hoping to find posts in Europe. The consequent drops in salary seem to them to be worthwhile as the price of continuing to be able to do science as they have known it. What is more, young researchers from Europe are said to be hesitant about spending time in the US. None of this looks very favourable to the US continuing to be seen as the world leader in science, with all the economic benefits (and let us not forget the military benefits) that has brought in the past.

[Gunnar]

I should mention that those of us who have connections with scientists in Europe are familiar with the descriptions of their situation given by visiting scientists from the US. Some of these have travelled to Europe simply to let their colleagues know the strength of the efforts being made by the Trump administration to bring the whole idea of universities as centres for free research and publication to an end. Instead, some of them say, Trump and his facilitators want to move research into opaque 'tech labs' run for profit only, with no open sharing of research results.

Some of these visitors are hoping to find posts in Europe. The consequent drops in salary seem to them to be worthwhile as the price of continuing to be able to do science as they have known it. What is more, young researchers from Europe are said to be hesitant about spending time in the US. None of this looks very favourable to the US continuing to be seen as the world leader in science, with all the economic benefits (and let us not forget the military benefits) that has brought in the past.

This seemingly growing trend to dismiss the very idea of establishing and relying on our universities as centers for free research and publication is both alarming and abysmally stupid! Nothing has contributed more to whatever greatness and competitive advantages our nation has achieved, economically, scientifically and technologically than that ideal, and nothing is more certain to result in the disastrous demise of our power, economy, technological leadership and positive influence in the world than abandoning that ideal. The stupid, current vendetta against Doctor Fauci is a tragic example of this growing and abysmally stupid anti-intellectual, anti-science trend. It has no real object other than to trap Fauci into saying something they can spin as perjury, so they can use it to prosecute and discredit Fauci, thus drawing attention from Trump's demonstrable failures, corruption and criminality.

As pointed out in the Lancet article I cited in a previous post upthread, it is as if MAGA and other conservatives are claiming that government efforts to encourage people to take effective preventive measures (such as vaccination or responsibly using masks or distancing oneself from others when knowingly infected) against acquiring or spreading disease is somehow an unacceptable infringement on our basic, God-given human freedoms!

[Jersey Girl]

One of the most disturbing things about ajax is that he is or claims to be a competent and successful optometrist. I find it hard to understand how anyone supposedly possessing the scientific knowledge required for a licensed optometrist can be so clueless about the firmly established scientific consensus of human caused climate change and environmental degradation. He is even more clueless (or simply doesn't care) about the now unequivocally established fact that Trump and his administration is the most corrupt, immoral and pathologically dishonest administration in the entire history of our nation.

You left out the fact that scientific institutions like Lancet have lost most of their respect and public trust for the partisan political pseudoscience they published during the global scamdemic. Fauci was no scientist, just a political partisan.

What you think you're seeing has absolutely nothing to do with Fauci.

Two words: Bait and also switch.

If you can't see the con, ajax, you're the mark.

[Some Schmo]

I wouldn't worry too much about this guy. He comes here to obviously cover for some deficit in his life. My guess is that it is a lack of intellectual capabilities he sees in himself given how his posts almost always point the finger at how supposedly "dumb" Trump supporters are. Yet he refuses any self-examination on how idiotic and intellectually lacking his "a der republicans are stupid der" posts day after day after day after day are. He should look at how his team blindly covers for team corruption and crimes and how he religiously obeys team dictates. But that is probably too much for a brain to handle.

LOL

[Doctor Steuss]

You left out the fact that scientific institutions like Lancet have lost most of their respect and public trust for the partisan political pseudoscience they published during the global scamdemic.

I assume there's a poll that was conducted amongst people with the relevant educational backgrounds to back up this assertion that the Lancet is no longer a respected journal? Or do you mean it's no longer respected amongst those who dislike basic scientific principles, and discernable reality (i.e. MAGA)? The latter certainly makes sense, given their elevation of RFK, and his pathological inability to accurately represent published research, or basic biology.

Fauci was no scientist, just a political partisan.

That's pretty impressive that someone who isn't a scientist was able to patent specific epitopes and antibodies associated with HIV-1, CD4 fusion proteins, integrin antagonists, and a myriad of co-inventor patents as a government researcher.

Seriously, I think my favorite thing in this new boogie man thing, in trying to distract from the Epstein files, Iran, the economy, and the fact that Trump was in charge through the worst of the pandemic, is the right wing media making a big kerfuffle about an entry in Fauci's journal regarding survival rates, and how Fauci knew it was less deadly than the case mortality rate, but hid that from the public. Thing is, he didn't hide it from the public, he just hid it from MAGA. How did he hide it specifically from MAGA, you ask? By publishing it. He relied on the inability of MAGA to read, or comprehend anything that can't be contained within a meme to hide it from them by publishing it in the New England Journal of Medicine.

The "scamdemic." The thing where Fauci is responsible for the deaths of millions, but also for forcing lockdowns of something that wasn't deadly and a complete scam. Somehow, in MAGA brains, both of these things are true.

[Gunnar]

You left out the fact that scientific institutions like Lancet have lost most of their respect and public trust for the partisan political pseudoscience they published during the global scamdemic.

I assume there's a poll that was conducted amongst people with the relevant educational backgrounds to back up this assertion that the Lancet is no longer a respected journal? Or do you mean it's no longer respected amongst those who dislike basic scientific principles, and discernable reality (i.e. MAGA)? The latter certainly makes sense, given their elevation of RFK, and his pathological inability to accurately represent published research, or basic biology.

Fauci was no scientist, just a political partisan.

That's pretty impressive that someone who isn't a scientist was able to patent specific epitopes and antibodies associated with HIV-1, CD4 fusion proteins, integrin antagonists, and a myriad of co-inventor patents as a government researcher.

Seriously, I think my favorite thing in this new boogie man thing, in trying to distract from the Epstein files, Iran, the economy, and the fact that Trump was in charge through the worst of the pandemic, is the right wing media making a big kerfuffle about an entry in Fauci's journal regarding survival rates, and how Fauci knew it was less deadly than the case mortality rate, but hid that from the public. Thing is, he didn't hide it from the public, he just hid it from MAGA. How did he hide it specifically from MAGA, you ask? By publishing it. He relied on the inability of MAGA to read, or comprehend anything that can't be contained within a meme to hide it from them by publishing it in the New England Journal of Medicine.

The "scamdemic." The thing where Fauci is responsible for the deaths of millions, but also for forcing lockdowns of something that wasn't deadly and a complete scam. Somehow, in MAGA brains, both of these things are true.

Excellent post! Doctor Fauci is an effective and highly respected researcher who contributed greatly to the field of epidemiology, and whose main "fault" was being insufficiently loyal and obsequious to our narcissist-in-chief, Donald J. Trump, which, in Trump's eyes, is unforgivable. The current MAGA led hearings on Fauci are nothing but a witch-hunt intended to trap him into saying something seemingly perjurious that they could spin into grounds for prosecuting, discrediting and imprisoning him, while at the same time distracting attention from Trump's very real failures, corruption and even outright criminality.

[Chap]

Here's the text of Fauci's article:

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted
Authors: Anthony S. Fauci, M.D., H. Clifford Lane, M.D. https://orcid.org/0000-0001-9509-1045, and Robert R. Redfield, M.D.Author information & Affiliations
Published February 28, 2020
N Engl J Med 2020;382:1268-1269
DOI: 10.1056/NEJMe2002387
VOL. 382 NO. 13
Copyright © 2020

The latest threat to global health is the ongoing outbreak of the respiratory disease that was recently given the name Coronavirus Disease 2019 (Covid-19). Covid-19 was recognized in December 2019.1 It was rapidly shown to be caused by a novel coronavirus that is structurally related to the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). As in two preceding instances of emergence of coronavirus disease in the past 18 years2 — SARS (2002 and 2003) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) (2012 to the present) — the Covid-19 outbreak has posed critical challenges for the public health, research, and medical communities.

In their Journal article, Li and colleagues3 provide a detailed clinical and epidemiologic description of the first 425 cases reported in the epicenter of the outbreak: the city of Wuhan in Hubei province, China. Although this information is critical in informing the appropriate response to this outbreak, as the authors point out, the study faces the limitation associated with reporting in real time the evolution of an emerging pathogen in its earliest stages. Nonetheless, a degree of clarity is emerging from this report. The median age of the patients was 59 years, with higher morbidity and mortality among the elderly and among those with coexisting conditions (similar to the situation with influenza); 56% of the patients were male. Of note, there were no cases in children younger than 15 years of age. Either children are less likely to become infected, which would have important epidemiologic implications, or their symptoms were so mild that their infection escaped detection, which has implications for the size of the denominator of total community infections.

On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2

The efficiency of transmission for any respiratory virus has important implications for containment and mitigation strategies. The current study indicates an estimated basic reproduction number (R0) of 2.2, which means that, on average, each infected person spreads the infection to an additional two persons. As the authors note, until this number falls below 1.0, it is likely that the outbreak will continue to spread. Recent reports of high titers of virus in the oropharynx early in the course of disease arouse concern about increased infectivity during the period of minimal symptoms.6,7

China, the United States, and several other countries have instituted temporary restrictions on travel with an eye toward slowing the spread of this new disease within China and throughout the rest of the world. The United States has seen a dramatic reduction in the number of travelers from China, especially from Hubei province. At least on a temporary basis, such restrictions may have helped slow the spread of the virus: whereas 78,191 laboratory-confirmed cases had been identified in China as of February 26, 2020, a total of 2918 cases had been confirmed in 37 other countries or territories.4 As of February 26, 2020, there had been 14 cases detected in the United States involving travel to China or close contacts with travelers, 3 cases among U.S. citizens repatriated from China, and 42 cases among U.S. passengers repatriated from a cruise ship where the infection had spread.8 However, given the efficiency of transmission as indicated in the current report, we should be prepared for Covid-19 to gain a foothold throughout the world, including in the United States. Community spread in the United States could require a shift from containment to mitigation strategies such as social distancing in order to reduce transmission. Such strategies could include isolating ill persons (including voluntary isolation at home), school closures, and telecommuting where possible.9

A robust research effort is currently under way to develop a vaccine against Covid-19.10 We anticipate that the first candidates will enter phase 1 trials by early spring. Therapy currently consists of supportive care while a variety of investigational approaches are being explored.11 Among these are the antiviral medication lopinavir–ritonavir, interferon-1β, the RNA polymerase inhibitor remdesivir, chloroquine, and a variety of traditional Chinese medicine products.11 Once available, intravenous hyperimmune globulin from recovered persons and monoclonal antibodies may be attractive candidates to study in early intervention. Critical to moving the field forward, even in the context of an outbreak, is ensuring that investigational products are evaluated in scientifically and ethically sound studies.12

Every outbreak provides an opportunity to gain important information, some of which is associated with a limited window of opportunity. For example, Li et al. report a mean interval of 9.1 to 12.5 days between the onset of illness and hospitalization. This finding of a delay in the progression to serious disease may be telling us something important about the pathogenesis of this new virus and may provide a unique window of opportunity for intervention. Achieving a better understanding of the pathogenesis of this disease will be invaluable in navigating our responses in this uncharted arena. Furthermore, genomic studies could delineate host factors that predispose persons to acquisition of infection and disease progression.

The Covid-19 outbreak is a stark reminder of the ongoing challenge of emerging and reemerging infectious pathogens and the need for constant surveillance, prompt diagnosis, and robust research to understand the basic biology of new organisms and our susceptibilities to them, as well as to develop effective countermeasures.

[Gunnar]

Thanks for showing us Fauci's article, Chap! Persecuting him for his work on humanity's behalf is immoral and defamatory. He deserves hero status--not villain status!

[Doctor Steuss]

Just for the record, I am no Fauci fanboy; however, there's a vast chasm between him being infallible, and him being a villain. I think he had an overall commendable career as s civil servant but also failed drastically at effectively communicating the reasons between health policies. At the same time, effectively communicating basic evidence-based medical science is no easy task when a significant part of the population worships men who tend to make the Ven diagram of incompetence and dishonesty trend towards a solitary circle (for examples of two people who I think are stellar at communicating medical science, but also illustrate the struggle because people are... well... people, see Dr. Mikhail Varshavski, MD [a.k.a. "Dr. Mike"], and Dr. Morgan McSweeney, PhD [a.k.a. "Doc Noc"]).

For another area where I think there's plenty to criticize with Dr. Fauci, see the beginnings of the AIDS epidemic.

For the select few here whose worldview is that you either worship someone, or loathe them, primarily based on whatever political ideology you pretend that they have, this will probably make brains melt.

[ceeboo]

"Sailing" thread author checking in.

While my bingo card did have quite a few potential responses on it, I must admit that most of the thread posts thus far are completely missing from my bingo card.

Bewildering.