Sucking up to the boss…

[MG 2.0]

We have a gay daughter who is married to another woman. They both had toed the line and married men and had children but later, when society had changed, were able to declare themselves to be authentically who they were. Unfortunately there have been some hearts broken along the way.

When they were married and had their reception MANY of their LDS ward members and friends showed up for them. That made them/us happy and hopeful for fuller integration into the Mormon community if our daughter and her spouse decide to remain in the church at some activity level.

We’ll see how it plays out.

Regards,
MG

I hope your daughter has found happiness

So far, so good! Thanks.

Regards,
MG

[canpakes]

Up to that point behaviorism and aversion conditioning were widely practiced across major research universities nationwide (including Harvard and UCLA).

I would be careful with the use of ‘widely’ on this one, especially considering BYU’s depth, scope and time devoted to this ‘research’ compared to elsewhere. A good source to review can be found at -
https://mormonr.org/qnas/parwO/gay_conv ... py_and_BYU

Many behavioral psychologists at BYU viewed electric aversion as a standard, cutting-edge clinical tool rather than something controversial or fringe.

There’s no guarantee that people are made better by ‘curing’ them of homosexuality.

I suppose the conversation should also include why BYU felt it necessary to try.

Either way, I’m not sure why it would be surprising (or shocking) that administering electric shocks to people in the midst of thinking about or doing a particular activity would eventually result in an unpleasant association with that activity, but it was seen as holding some promise for dangerous or addictive behaviors such as alcoholism.

If applied correctly, aversion therapy can - I’d wager - even ‘cure’ you of wanting to participate in heterosexual activities.

….

Was BYU ahead of the curve or behind?

If ‘the curve’ ends up being ineffective or dangerous, there’s not much to trumpet about being aggressive enough into it as to run right off the road.

[MG 2.0]

Up to that point behaviorism and aversion conditioning were widely practiced across major research universities nationwide (including Harvard and UCLA).

I would be careful with the use of ‘widely’ on this one, especially considering BYU’s depth, scope and time devoted to this ‘research’ compared to elsewhere. A good source to review can be found at -
https://mormonr.org/qnas/parwO/gay_conv ... py_and_BYU

OK. Let's go with 'fairly widely'.

In the United States: University of Pittsburgh, University of Wisconsin–Madison, Temple University, Florida State University, University of Arizona, University of Hawaii, Rutgers University. In the UK: University of Birmingham, University of Manchester / Crumpsall Hospital, Institute of Psychiatry / Maudsley Hospital (University of London, University of Edinburgh. In Australia: University of New South Wales / University of Sydney.

MG: Many behavioral psychologists at BYU viewed electric aversion as a standard, cutting-edge clinical tool rather than something controversial or fringe.

There’s no guarantee that people are made better by ‘curing’ them of homosexuality.

Nowaday, that's true. In the 1970's it was thought to play a part in curing people of a number of behaviors that were considered to be aberrant.

I suppose the conversation should also include why BYU felt it necessary to try.

I think we may have already covered that.

Either way, I’m not sure why it would be surprising (or shocking) that administering electric shocks to people in the midst of thinking about or doing a particular activity would eventually result in an unpleasant association with that activity, but it was seen as holding some promise for dangerous or addictive behaviors such as alcoholism.

Yes, it was.

MG: Was BYU ahead of the curve or behind?

If ‘the curve’ ends up being ineffective or dangerous, there’s not much to trumpet about being aggressive enough into it as to run right off the road.

It appears that BYU went pretty much in tandem with the other universities once the 1973 decision by the American Psychiatric Association decided to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM. There was growing ethical criticism showing poor long term efficacy.

From the mid 1970's on BYU and the other universities that have been mentioned (and I'm sure others) started to wind down this kind of behavioral therapy.

Thank goodness. I can't even imagine that sort of thing going on nowadays.

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

….

[MG 2.0]

Is that all you've got?

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Is that all you've got?

Regards,
MG

TTOC

[MG 2.0]

TTOC

When all is said and done I don't really think you have anything useful/productive to offer. I'm sure you're a good man in so many ways though.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Wang, you might start by actually responding to some of the posts I've made on this thread with something more substantiative than you've offered up so far.

I might even engage you on that front.

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Wang, you might start by actually responding to some of the posts I've made on this thread with something more substantiative than you've offered up so far.

I might even engage you on that front.

Regards,
MG. < edit -c-

Fibber, why do you think I would want to respond to any of your posts? They suck. You suck. And, not a single person on this board feels you are honest. That’s some great missionary work there, Fibber.

Please keep ‘MG’ as MG when quoting. No text substitutions within quoted text.
-c-

[MG 2.0]

Wang, you might start by actually responding to some of the posts I've made on this thread with something more substantiative than you've offered up so far.

I might even engage you on that front.

Regards,
MG

Fibber, why do you think I would want to respond to any of your posts? They suck. You suck. And, not a single person on this board feels you are honest. That’s some great missionary work there, Fibber.

Thank you for your kind words.

Your friend,
MG