John Dehlin joins Mormonism LIVE to give the other side

[msnobody]

Ignored.

Then I think we can accept/agree that a 'weak vessel' can be a conduit to accomplish God's work.

Regards,
MG

An evil vessel can also be used by God to accomplish his divine decree.

[MG 2.0]

Then I think we can accept/agree that a 'weak vessel' can be a conduit to accomplish God's work.

Regards,
MG

An evil vessel can also be used by God to accomplish his divine decree.

I agree. History is full of those individuals. Unfortunately, people…sometimes lots of them…may get hurt in the process.

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Then I think we can accept/agree that a 'weak vessel' can be a conduit to accomplish God's work.

Regards,
MG

An evil vessel can also be used by God to accomplish his divine decree.

And in Joseph’s case, Satan clearly used Joseph Smith as a vessel to pioneer a racist sex cult disguised as a restoration making it remarkably easy for anyone with a brain to see who was really behind the whole operation.

[MG 2.0]

An evil vessel can also be used by God to accomplish his divine decree.

And in Joseph’s case, Satan clearly used Joseph Smith as a vessel to pioneer a racist sex cult disguised as a restoration making it remarkably easy for anyone with a brain to see who was really behind the whole operation.

The church that I go to isn't a racist sex cult. It is a church in which we worship Jesus Christ, take of His sacrament to remember the gift that He has given, and recommit each week to repent and follow Him through obeying His commandments. A place of community where we love one another, serve one another, and raise righteous families worthy to return to God's presence.

It's not all bad!

Got something better? Let's hear it!

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

An evil vessel can also be used by God to accomplish his divine decree.

And in Joseph’s case, Satan clearly used Joseph Smith as a vessel to pioneer a racist sex cult disguised as a restoration making it remarkably easy for anyone with a brain to see who was really behind the whole operation.

Yeah, the “restored church” and its supposedly eternal truths concerning polygamy and racial theology have been revised or watered down so much that the experience described by MG could be found in almost any current Christian congregation. With variations on theological distinctions like ex nihilo or the trinity of course.

It’s odd that Joseph’s conduct regarding sex and finances could ever be considered good, much less evidence of a Restoration. It seems more like an evil vessel introducing evil that succeeding generations have gradually had to correct.

[MG 2.0]

It’s odd that Joseph’s conduct regarding sex and finances could ever be considered good, much less evidence of a Restoration.

Earlier I mentioned "weak vessels". Throughout history God has done His work through less than perfect men. I'm sure you could come up with a number of Biblical examples.

I think there are reasons for that. Some of them which I have mentioned before so I won't repeat them.

It's also worth repeating that there are some folks that focus or concentrate on information that has come to us from third hand sources that are biased and incomplete in their representation of the whole person of Joseph Smith. Some of those folks are represented on this very board.

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

And in Joseph’s case, Satan clearly used Joseph Smith as a vessel to pioneer a racist sex cult disguised as a restoration making it remarkably easy for anyone with a brain to see who was really behind the whole operation.

Yeah, the “restored church” and its supposedly eternal truths concerning polygamy and racial theology have been revised or watered down so much that the experience described by MG could be found in almost any current Christian congregation. With variations on theological distinctions like ex nihilo or the trinity of course.

It’s odd that Joseph’s conduct regarding sex and finances could ever be considered good, much less evidence of a Restoration. It seems more like an evil vessel introducing evil that succeeding generations have gradually had to correct.

“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.”

[I Have Questions]

And in Joseph’s case, Satan clearly used Joseph Smith as a vessel to pioneer a racist sex cult disguised as a restoration making it remarkably easy for anyone with a brain to see who was really behind the whole operation.

Yeah, the “restored church” and its supposedly eternal truths concerning polygamy and racial theology have been revised or watered down so much that the experience described by MG could be found in almost any current Christian congregation. With variations on theological distinctions like ex nihilo or the trinity of course.

It’s odd that Joseph’s conduct regarding sex and finances could ever be considered good, much less evidence of a Restoration. It seems more like an evil vessel introducing evil that succeeding generations have gradually had to correct.

It’s interesting to note that nearly all the unique things that Joseph claimed he was “restoring” has subsequently been jettisoned, backtracked, or watered down.

[Dr. Shades]

And in Joseph’s case, Satan clearly used Joseph Smith as a vessel to pioneer a racist sex cult disguised as a restoration making it remarkably easy for anyone with a brain to see who was really behind the whole operation.

The church that I go to isn't a racist sex cult. It is a church in which we worship Jesus Christ, take of His sacrament to remember the gift that He has given, and recommit each week to repent and follow Him through obeying His commandments. A place of community where we love one another, serve one another, and raise righteous families worthy to return to God's presence.

So Jesus was wrong, and a corrupt tree CAN bring forth good fruit?

[Gadianton]

The church that I go to isn't a racist sex cult. It is a church in which we worship Jesus Christ, take of His sacrament to remember the gift that He has given, and recommit each week to repent and follow Him through obeying His commandments.

Everybody Wang Chung is absolutely right about this, unfortunately -- or fortunately?

"Sex cult" can mean a couple of different things. It could mean that an essential part of worship is through sex, and in our time, sex that pushes social norms, or it could mean that sex and fertility and gender and rhythm of the cosmos all go together in terms of doctrine -- but it probably means a combination of both. In terms of participating in sexual sacraments, Mormonism absolutely has made the grade in the past with Joseph Smith and polygamy. I don't know which came first the chicken, Joseph Smith getting his thrust on, or the egg, God is a man with lots of wives, but the two go together neatly.

I didn't learn about Nancy Rigdon from an anti site, I learned about it from my uber TBM dad. He told me about it when I was in high school. What got him excited was the "powerful rebuke" the Lord administered to her through the prophet for disobeying. The prophet taking wives through the dictates of the Lord is not an abandoned doctrine, it's just held in reservation until the members are ready to accept these things again. But TBM scholars certainly understand and accept it. The fact that MG may pretend he doesn't know about it or accept it means nothing as he doesn't represent the Church.

But let's examine MG's faith. Why does he worship Christ? To get resurrected and receive eternal life, which means to populate worlds without end. Angels are also in the Celestial kingdom and have constant interaction with Jesus and God but they are "second degree" inhabitants, who weren't quite as faithful as those who make it to the top. The difference? Those at the top have sex for eternity, to bring more and more people into the universe.
"Strength in the loins" is even in the temple.

In other words, no matter how much time a person spends interacting with Christ in heaven, if the ARE NOT, having sex constantly, then they WERE NOT entirely faithful to their covenants in mortality.