Very interesting find as a possible muse map, Shulem.
Especially with natural bays, fed by rivers, on both sides, excellent places to land a ship. Back then, was this considered a natural port zone? Would ocean currents have brought wind swept travelers there?
With regard to the miraculous story of the Book of Mormon that tells us God brought Lehi's ship to the land of promise it really doesn't matter what the normal winds or water currents are considering they were brought by the hand of God. End of story. If God can blow the Jaredite barges across the vastness of an endless ocean then he can blow Lehi's ship into the Virginia coast. Right? So, a scientific approach in understanding water current and winds is totally moot. It simply doesn't factor into a faith based story. But it's certainly reasonable that a ship having sails can pilot a course north into the Atlantic in favorable weather conditions.
This certainly looks like a natural place to port. In Smith's time Washington DC and Baltimore were established hubs leading from the Chesapeake Bay and in the Delaware Bay the ports of Wilmington and the great city of Philadelphia sat majestically just a little way up the river. And this my friend *IS* the land of promise in which the Book of Mormon was founded. The very land of liberty! The chosen land that Smith valued so highly. The land in which the choice latter-day seer would be born and tell the tale of the golden book and how the last of the ancient prophets wandered about for years before finally burying it in Cumorah's hill.
I bear my solemn testimony that I know this is the land of promise which Joseph Smith invented within his Book of Mormon novel and that this is the very place Lehi came in which to establish a new life in AMERICA.
The Tehuantepec and Yucatan base have absolutely nothing to do with Smith's Book of Mormon. It was the farthest thing from his mind at that time.
And the papyrus purchased by Joseph Smith in Kirtland has nothing to do with Abraham. Trying to find the land of promise and the narrow neck in Tehuantepec is like trying to translate the Book of Abraham from Smith's papyrus. It's not possible.
Isn't that right, Daniel C. Peterson? You will not find the king's name in Facsimile No. 3 anymore than you will find the narrow neck in Tehuantepec!
Panning for gold and silver has ever been a pastime for prospectors in many a creek and river. But to my knowledge the Delmarva Peninsula has never been blessed with much precious metal. The first gold rush to occur in America was in 1799 in North Carolina, shortly after resulting in the production of gold on a commercial level. So from that discovery alone it could be said that America has gold, how much no one could say. But for Joseph Smith, he could invent whatever he wanted to go with his story. After all, the location of his geography was not made known but kept private within Smith's own mind. Had he told the saints where the land of Nephi was then it might follow that some would wander that way looking for ruins or evidence of the ancient civilization. But that was not to be the case. Smith's lips were sealed and for good reason.
Any sacred Indian spaces on the peninsula? Any ruins or evidence of Indian villages? What were their names? What about old weapon finds?
What tribes lived in that area in Joseph’s day?
Wikipedia wrote:The Choptank (or Ababco) were an Algonquian-speaking Native American people that historically lived on the Eastern Shore of Maryland on the Delmarva Peninsula. They occupied an area along the lower Choptank River basin, which included parts of present-day Talbot, Dorchester and Caroline counties. The river emptied into the Chesapeake Bay. They spoke Nanticoke, an Eastern Algonquian language closely related to Delaware.
The Choptank were the only Indians on the Eastern Shore to be granted a reservation in fee simple by the English colonial government. They retained the land until 1822, when the state of Maryland sold it, in part to pay for the state's share of the District of Columbia.
Let's be frank about something, shall we? Joseph Smith was a very intelligent person and was brilliant in many ways. He should be amply complimented for his ability to tell an amazing story and keep an accurate timeline of the events within the interwoven stories in which he managed. With that said, I can assure you that Smith was not stupid and never in his silliest of moments would have suggested that an older man could walk 2,700 miles from Mexico carrying a 50 lb. book of gold to bury in Cumorah, New York.
It's time for silly apologetic reasoning to be dismissed and end it here and now. At some point you'd think that faithful believers could reason it out without having me come and pop their make-believe balloon with a pin. But here I am, nonetheless. The Book of Mormon model I've presented and conceived of some 15 years ago is undeniable when considering all the facts and evidence pertaining to Smith's testimony and the text of the book he wrote.
Now, what say ye, Philo Sofee? Are you seeing the light, yet?
Let's be frank about something, shall we? Joseph Smith was a very intelligent person and was brilliant in many ways. He should be amply complimented for his ability to tell an amazing story and keep an accurate timeline of the events within the interwoven stories in which he managed. With that said, I can assure you that Smith was not stupid and never in his silliest of moments would have suggested that an older man could walk 2,700 miles from Mexico carrying a 50 lb. book of gold to bury in Cumorah, New York.
It's time for silly apologetic reasoning to be dismissed and end it here and now. At some point you'd think that faithful believers could reason it out without having me come and pop their make-believe balloon with a pin. But here I am, nonetheless. The Book of Mormon model I've presented and conceived of some 15 years ago is undeniable when considering all the facts and evidence pertaining to Smith's testimony and the text of the book he wrote.
Now, what say ye, Philo Sofee? Are you seeing the light, yet?
I am, Shulem! I am enjoying this thread thoroughly. Smith assimilated nearly everything around him in order to tell his stories. He was indeed brilliant, but at the same time a truly horrible man who did things like marry the wives of other men, the girls who lived in his and Emma’s home, and virtually any female who caught his fancy. There is nothing that says brilliance in accomplishments can’t coexist with horrific moral failings, and Smith is a prime example.
Oh boy. Well, we can't look at any modern maps or maps that came after Joseph Smith. We would only do that IF we based our research on the idea that the Book of Mormon is historical and verily true, which it is not. We must base our research on the premise that the Book of Mormon is a fraud and using that as a base the pieces of the puzzle can come together to form the picture in which we can prove that fraud. Unfortunately, for apologists, they have wasted years and years of personal time and study chasing a rainbow that never existed because of their misplaced faith in assuming that it was true in the first place. They wrongly based their search on criteria that fit their preconceived mold.
I don't do that because I KNOW the Book of Mormon is just a faith promoting novel invented by Joseph Smith!
Last edited by Shulem on Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Let's be frank about something, shall we? Joseph Smith was a very intelligent person and was brilliant in many ways. He should be amply complimented for his ability to tell an amazing story and keep an accurate timeline of the events within the interwoven stories in which he managed. With that said, I can assure you that Smith was not stupid and never in his silliest of moments would have suggested that an older man could walk 2,700 miles from Mexico carrying a 50 lb. book of gold to bury in Cumorah, New York.
It's time for silly apologetic reasoning to be dismissed and end it here and now. At some point you'd think that faithful believers could reason it out without having me come and pop their make-believe balloon with a pin. But here I am, nonetheless. The Book of Mormon model I've presented and conceived of some 15 years ago is undeniable when considering all the facts and evidence pertaining to Smith's testimony and the text of the book he wrote.
Now, what say ye, Philo Sofee? Are you seeing the light, yet?
I am, Shulem! I am enjoying this thread thoroughly. Smith assimilated nearly everything around him in order to tell his stories. He was indeed brilliant, but at the same time a truly horrible man who did things like marry the wives of other men, the girls who lived in his and Emma’s home, and virtually any female who caught his fancy. There is nothing that says brilliance in accomplishments can’t coexist with horrific moral failings, and Smith is a prime example.
Yes, I totally get what you're saying and agree wholeheartedly with all of those sentiments. But Smith made his bed and in the end it led to Carthage where he brought it all upon himself. It finally caught up with him. Enough was enough as he really upset a lot of good people.
Alma 3:3 wrote:And now as many of the Lamanites and the Amlicites who had been slain upon the bank of the river Sidon were cast into the waters of Sidon; and behold their bones are in the depths of the sea, and they are many.
Folks, we are talking about a real flowing river! A river that flows and goes beyond and adjoins with the sea. What sea? The ocean! Yes, the river joins the sea where fresh water and salt meet and mix.
Alma 3:3 wrote:And now as many of the Lamanites and the Amlicites who had been slain upon the bank of the river Sidon were cast into the waters of Sidon; and behold their bones are in the depths of the sea, and they are many.
Folks, we are talking about a real flowing river! A river that flows and goes beyond and adjoins with the sea. What sea? The ocean! Yes, the river joins the sea where fresh water and salt meet and mix.
Their bones have GONE FORTH and are lost at sea! Where the river meets the ocean.
Alma 44:22 wrote:And it came to pass that they did cast their dead into the waters of Sidon, and they have gone forth and are buried in the depths of the sea.
