Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

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Shulem
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Anything goes!

Post by Shulem »

As Mormonism evolved doctrinally so also did the prospects of Book of Mormon geography. By 1842 it was pretty much anything goes so long as it promotes faith in the Book of Mormon and any archeological evidence in the Americas (whether North or South) must be attributed to the ancient inhabitants recorded in the Book of Mormon. So long as the Book of Mormon is true then anything and everything points to that conclusion. Smith was branching out and letting the geography become whatever it would be and go where ever it was taken.

:roll:

Times and Seasons, 1 October 1842
ZARAHEMLA.


The publication does come with this little disclaimer:

Times and Seasons wrote:We are not going to declare positively that the ruins of Quirigua are those of Zarahemla, but when the land and the stones, and the books tell the story so plain, we are of opinion, that it would require more proof than the Jews could bring to prove the disciples stole the body of Jesus from the tomb, to prove that the ruins of the city in question, are not one of those referred to in the Book of Mormon.

Smith must have had concerns that a Zarahemla so far away from Cumorah would be difficult to conceive considering that transportation and commerce was a constant between the South and the North. But 3,000 miles? That's a stretch, even for Joseph Smith! And sorry, Daniel C. Peterson, but tapirs are only found in the South. Had Nephites been riding tapirs to Cumorah there would be tapirs in New York to this day.

:lol:
Times and Seasons wrote:It may seem hard for unbelievers in the mighty works of God, to give credit to such a miraculous preservation of the remains, ruins, records and reminiscences of a branch of the house of Israel: but the elements are eternal, and intelligence is eternal, and God is eternal, so that the very hairs of our heads are all numbered.

Smith was verily right! It is hard for unbelievers to accept the ridiculous claims of the Book of Mormon and the total lack of archeological evidence at Cumorah and thereabouts when ruins or at least remnants of a great civilization should still exist. But Cumorah is a barren grassy hill just as Oliver Cowdery described. No ruins. No bones. No armor. No nothing. Just grass.
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself!

Post by Philo Sofee »

All the dead bones and remains were transferred to heaven so Mormons could live by faith, not of knowledge, lest God take away their free agency... he doesn't allow knowing the Book of Mormon is true through evidence, but through faith.
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Re: Anything goes!

Post by Moksha »

Times and Seasons wrote:... but the elements are eternal, and intelligence is eternal, and God is eternal, so that the very hairs of our heads are all numbered.
But the hairs on Dallin Oaks head are very finite. :|
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Re: Continent

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Joseph Smith wrote his own biography and therein is included the bit about how the angel Moroni appeared to him as a young man and told him that the golden plates was a record of the peoples who lived on "this continent".

Joseph Smith wrote:He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

What exactly does the Book of Mormon imply for this continent? Book of Mormon prophecy and church theology pay direct reference to the land of the free made possible through the government of the United States of America. It's the land and country in which the flag of stars and stripes blows freely in the wind! It's the very land that has been given the blessings of the American Constitution; the United States of America and its territories. That is the land of promise. That is the land of Zion. That is the center place! So where is the very CENTER of this land of promise? If you guessed Jackson County Missouri then you guessed right. It's smack in the middle of the land of promise! That *is* Joseph Smith's "center place" in the midst of the continent. Elder Sidney Rigdon was privy to early church theology and later became Smith's counsellor in the First Presidency. He knew early on that America was the chosen land. His epistle like message deserves special attention in which it was given just one month after Joseph Smith revealed (D&C 57:3) to the church that Independence in Jackson County Missouri was the promised location for building the city of Zion:

Sidey Rigdon wrote: John Whitmer, History, 1831

I Sidney a servant of Jesus Christ by the will of God the Father and through the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ unto the Saints who are scattered abroad in the last days, may grace, mercy and peace, rest upon you from God the father and from our Lord Jesus Christ, who is greatly to be feared, among his saints and to be had in reverence of all them who obey him.

Beloved brethren,

It has pleased God even the Father to make known unto us in these last days, the good pleasure of his will concerning his saints; and to make known unto us, the things which he has decreed upon the nations even wasting and destruction until they are utterly destroyed, and the earth made desolate by reason of the wickedness of its inhabitants according as he has made known in times past by the prophets and apostles, that such calamities should befall the inhabitants of the earth in the last days, unless they should repent, and turn to the living God. And as the time is now near at hand, for the accomplishment of his purposes and the fulfilment of his prophesies, which have been spoken by all the holy prophets, ever since the world began, he has sent and signified, unto us by the mouths of his holy prophets, that he has raised up in these last days—the speedy accomplishment of his accomplishment of purposes which shall be accomplished, on the heads of the rebellious of this generation—among whom he has been pleased in much mercy and goodness, to send forth the fulness of his gospel in order that they might repent and turn to the living God, and be made partakers of his Holy Spirit

But by reason of their wickedness and rebellion against him and wicked and unbelieving hearts the Lord withdrew his spirit from them, and gives them up to work all uncleanness with greediness, and to bring swift destruction on themselves— and through their wickedness to hasten the day of their calamity, that they may be left without excuse in the day of vengeance.

But it has pleased our heavenly Father to make known some better things, concerning his Saints, and those who serve him in fear and rejoice in meekness, before him, even things which pertain to life everlasting, for godliness has the life promise of the life, that now is, and that which is to come; Even so it has pleased our heavenly Father to make provisions—for his saints in these last days of tribulation that they through faith and patience, and by continuing in well doing may preserve their lives; and attain unto rest and endless felicity—but by no other means, than that of a strict observance of his commandments and teachings in all things as there is and can be no ruler—nor lawgiver in the Kingdom of God save it be God our Savior himself—and before him he requires that all his saints & those who have named the name of Jesus, should be careful to depart from iniquity—and serve him with fear and rejoicing and trembling least he be angry and they perish from their way.

According to the prediction of the ancient prophets that the Lord would send his messengers in the last days, and gather his elect. (which is the elect according to the covenant, viz. those who like Abraham are faithful to God and the word of his Grace.) from the four winds even from one end of the earth to the other as testified of by the Savior himself—so in these last days, he has commenced to gather together, into a place provided before of God and had in reserve in days of old, being kept by the power and providence of of God, for this purpose and which he now holds in his own hands, that they through faith, and patience may inherit the blessings, promises— A land which God by his own commandment has consecrated to himself where he has said, that his laws shall be kept, and where his saints can dwell in safety, through their perseverance in well doing and their unfeigned repentance of all their sins, our heavenly Father has provided this land himself because it was the one which was blest best adapted, for his children, where Jew and gentile might dwell together: for God has the same respect to all those who call upon him in truth and righteousness whether they be Jew or Gentile; for there is no respect of persons with him.

This land being situated in the center of the continent on which we dwell with an exceeding fertile soil and ready cleared for the hand of the cultivator bespeaks the goodness of our God, in providing so goodly a heritage, and its climate suited persons from every quarter of this continent. whether East West North or South. yea I think I may say, for all constitutions from every part of the world and its productions nearly all varieties of both grain and vegetables which are common in this country together with all means, clothing: in addition to this it abounds with fountains of pure water the soil climate and surface all adapted, to health indeed I may say that the whole properties of the country invite the Saints to come, and partake their blessings but what more need I say about a country. which our Heavenly Father holds in his own hands. for if it were unhealthy he could make it healthy and if barren he could make it fruitful. Such is the land which God has provided for us. in these last days for an inheritance. and truly it is a goodly land, and none other so well suited for all the saints as this and all those who have faith and confidence. in God who has ever seen this land will bear the same testimony. In order that you may understand the will of God respecting this land, and the way and means, of possessing it, I can only refer you to commandments which the Lord has delivered, by the mouth of his Prophet which will be read, to you, by our brethren Oliver Cowdery and Newel K. Whitney whom the Lord has appointed, to visit the churches and obtain means for purchasing this land of our inheritance that we may escape in the day of tribulation which is coming on the earth. I conclude by exhorting you to hear the voice of the Lord your God, who is speaking to you in much mercy and who is sending forth, his word and his revelation in these last days, in order that we may escape impending vengeance; and the Judgements which await this generation, and which will speedily overtake them— Brethren pray for me, that I may be counted worthy to obtain an inheritance in the land, of Zion and to over come, the World through faith, and dwell with the sanctified, forever, and ever Amen.

Written at Kirtland Ohio Aug. 31. 1831.

The point is that the land of promise where the Nephites lived and died was on the American continent round about New York Cumorah. The land of Nephi was due south down in the peninsula flanked by inward lands of Washington DC and Philadelphia. Most importantly, however, the "center place" of Zion is many hundred miles to the west -- Jackson County Missouri.

Yes, the Book of Mormon lands and Zion were in the United States of America. That was the early theology according to the teachings of Joseph Smith.
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Faith & evidence work together in the scriptures

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:46 am
All the dead bones and remains were transferred to heaven so Mormons could live by faith, not of knowledge, lest God take away their free agency... he doesn't allow knowing the Book of Mormon is true through evidence, but through faith.

That sounds all well and dandy coming from a blindfolded modern Mormon who has absolute faith in whatever today's leaders just so happen to say. But it's not the pattern in which is given in scripture nor how the Lord has shown in his operation of the past wherein people in scripture are given physical evidence to support the claims of an earlier civilization. Evidence was given to support faith. For example:

Mosiah 8:8,9 wrote:And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel.

And for a testimony that the things that they had said are true they have brought twenty-four plates which are filled with engravings, and they are of pure gold.

So there. You don't know what you're talking about, Philo, my dear.

:D
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Re: Apologetic tricksters

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I'd like to take a moment and call to mind a trick used by modern apologists to deceive their readers into thinking that Cumorah in New York was not necessarily the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon where the Nephites fought their last battles. Such apologists want believers to assume the battleground Cumorah was down in Mesoamerica and that the hill in New York was simply named after that hill out of convenience.

Book of Mormon Central wrote:Not much is known about the land and hill Cumorah. The only Book of Mormon authors to discuss the location were Mormon and Moroni. Based on a statement given by Mormon, the land of Cumorah was “a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains” (Mormon 6:4). Other geographical clues given in the Book of Mormon appear to situate Cumorah north of the narrow neck of land and near an eastern seacoast (cf. Mormon 2:3, 20, 29; Ether 9:3). The hill itself was tall enough that it could be used as a strategic defensive position as well as an observation point for surveillance of the surrounding countryside (Mormon 6:2, 7, 11).

We all know that Cumorah in New York and the greater vicinity is surrounded by vast rivers of great length and there are many intricate bodies of water such as the Finger Lakes but more notably the Great Lakes. This amazing landscape describes perfectly what was in the mind of Joseph Smith as he dictated his story of the geography describing the account taking place in ancient North America. The account is simply breathtaking! The large bodies of water were massive lakes in the northern lands.

Book of Mormon Central wrote:There is “no historical evidence that Moroni called the hill ‘Cumorah’ in 1823” during his first encounter with the Prophet Joseph Smith. The name Cumorah came into “common circulation [amongst Latter-day Saints] no earlier than the mid-1830s.” The first documented person to identify the drumlin hill in Manchester, New York where Joseph Smith received the plates with the hill Cumorah appears to have been William W. Phelps in 1833. Phelps’s identification was later followed by Oliver Cowdery in 1835. Probably due to the popularity and influence of these two early leaders’ writings, the identification of the hill in New York as the same hill Cumorah mentioned by Mormon in Book of Mormon became commonplace amongst early Latter-day Saints

The first "documented person" to mention Cumorah by name changes nothing insomuch as everyone believed that Cumorah in New York was the battleground hill mentioned in the Book of Mormon and the very place in which the gold plates were buried. Every single member of the church believed that Cumorah in New York and the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon were ONE IN THE SAME. That was the testimony given by all those who spoke specifically in that regard.

Book of Mormon Central wrote:As far as can be determined, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself only associated the hill in New York with the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon towards the end of his life. In an 1842 epistle the Prophet spoke of hearing “Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed” (Doctrine and Covenants 128:20). Before then, Joseph left the name of the New York hill where Moroni gave him the plates unnamed in his accounts of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. Whether the Prophet arrived at this conclusion about the location of Cumorah by revelation, by conforming to usage that had become common among the early members of the Church about Book of Mormon geography, or in some other way is historically unknown.

Apologists have a hard time when it comes to not wanting to accept things that are outside the bounds and condition in which their faith must qualify. In other words, since there is no archeological evidence in New York the apologists refuse to accept it as the battleground Cumorah and will bend anything to any degree to change the natural paradigm which Joseph Smith made and which his followers embraced.

“Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed”

Moroni came down out of heaven to visit his earthly home yet again and declare glad tidings from the book buried in the hill of his native lands. Every member of the church believed that Cumorah in New York State was the very Cumorah in the Book of Mormon. It didn't even need to be said! Everyone knew it. It was common knowledge and as plentiful as the Waters of Mormon.

If there was archeological evidence on the Hill Cumorah the apologists wouldn't make faithless statements of denial against their founding prophet!
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The prophet spoke as a prophet

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Book of Mormon Central wrote:As far as can be determined, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself only associated the hill in New York with the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon towards the end of his life.

So what you mean to say is that those things said by the prophet at the end of his life are less meaningful as things he said earlier in life. Isn't that what you are implying, my dear apologist?

Book of Mormon Central wrote:Whether the Prophet arrived at this conclusion about the location of Cumorah by revelation, by conforming to usage that had become common among the early members of the Church about Book of Mormon geography, or in some other way is historically unknown.

But he was the prophet, period. If the people got it wrong he would correct them. You can be assured that the prophet arrived at the conclusion about the location of Cumorah and the land of Adam in Missouri by revelation given to him by the Holy Ghost. Whether you believe him or not is entirely another story.
Last edited by Shulem on Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: At Cumorah

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Mormon 6 wrote:
4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

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6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

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11 And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

The number "24" is convenient for Smith in making his story seem dramatically biblical. :roll:
2 Samuel 21:20 wrote:And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
Revelation 4:4 wrote:And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
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"Land of many waters"

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Mormon 6:4 wrote:
And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

Westward was Niagara and Lake Erie:

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Southward was Finger Lakes and many rivers

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Lake Ontario to the North

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Re: The prophet spoke as a prophet

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Shulem wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:12 pm
Book of Mormon Central wrote:As far as can be determined, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself only associated the hill in New York with the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon towards the end of his life.

So what you mean to say is that those things said by the prophet at the end of his life are less meaningful as things he said earlier in life. Isn't that what you are implying, my dear apologist?

Book of Mormon Central wrote:Whether the Prophet arrived at this conclusion about the location of Cumorah by revelation, by conforming to usage that had become common among the early members of the Church about Book of Mormon geography, or in some other way is historically unknown.

But he was the prophet, period. If the people got it wrong he would correct them. You can be assured that the prophet arrived at the conclusion about the location of Cumorah and the land of Adam in Missouri by revelation given to him by the Holy Ghost. Whether you believe him or not is entirely another story.
GOOD eye Shulem! Yeah, let em tap dance, yer gonna waltz right over them!
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