Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

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IHAQ
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Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

Post by IHAQ »

Chad Ford is a BYU-Hawaii professor, a professional mediator, and even a commentator and analyst for ESPN. To that list we can also add “author.” His new book “Dangerous Love: Transforming Fear and Conflict at Home, at Work, and in the World” offers readers tools to navigate the inevitable conflict in their lives.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/11 ... do-latter/

Why can't we just put our unresolved questions and faith crisis items on the shelf?
Ford • It’s called conflict avoidance — sweeping something under the rug, pretending it isn’t there. It’s wearing a mask that on the outside looks pure and holy. This is a consistent theme you hear again and again from Latter-day Saints, this idea that conflict is of the devil. That there is something unholy and shameful about conflict, and if I was really holy, I wouldn’t experience it.
That’s really self-defeating. If there is conflict in my life or in my family or community, I don’t want the world to know that. So that makes it harder for LDS people to seek out help from therapists or mediators.
Sometimes we also do conflict accommodation, especially among women: “If there’s no way for me to avoid this conflict, the righteous or holy thing is for me to give in.” That’s the default move if they can’t avoid conflict altogether, because it seems meek and humble, and we like our martyrdom. The problem is that it only works in short-term settings. When things are really important and we constantly push conflict aside, a gulf builds up and eventually it will break. As a long-term conflict strategy, accommodation will not work.
Why does the Church promote putting things on the shelf then?
Ford • The LDS Church is structured around patriarchal and hierarchical authority. One thing that’s drilled into us from a young age is that if someone above us in the hierarchy gets a revelation, it’s not appropriate for us to push back. That person has keys or authority to make decisions, so when they make decisions, our job is to follow. I don’t believe that’s necessarily doctrinally what we believe, but that’s what we do culturally.
Church Leaders are telling young people to doubt their doubts, put things on the shelf as they will be resolved in the next life. Is that good advice?
Ford • I’ll start with faith crisis. As a university professor working with young Latter-day Saints, many are going through a faith crisis. Think about our unhealthy approaches: We ignore it, we hide it. This makes young people afraid to talk about it with their friends or parents. Parents may feel shame about it.
So we start mistreating each other: We’re not open to their questions and concerns, and we don’t create space to have collaborative problem-solving. We think there’s something inherently wrong with asking questions, instead of seeing questions as a way to go deeper with faith. I see this all the time with my students and in my own family.
Because I’m teaching this stuff, they end up seeking me out because they feel I’m a safe place to talk about it. I’m very clear that I’m a practicing member of the church, but I’m not threatened by their questions. And that extends out to so many other questions, like the Word of Wisdom, women in the church, or LGBTQ+ issues. We aren’t good yet at talking about these issues in a healthy way. So we leave young people with two choices: to either shut up and accommodate, even though it hurts, or to leave and become a fierce critic of the church. Those outcomes to me are both tragic outcomes.
So Church Leaders are pursuing a strategy to keep people in the Church that is actually counter productive to a persons well being and also contributes to people leaving the Church acrimoniously. Hmmm...divinely inspired?
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Bought Yahoo
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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

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IHAQ wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:48 am

Church Leaders are telling young people to doubt their doubts, put things on the shelf as they will be resolved in the next life. Is that good advice?
I've been a member a long time and have never heard "put it on the shelf" as advice. My experience with bishops, stake presidents and the general authorities I know is that they don't have answers. Maybe there are some general authorities who have answers, but I've not encountered them.

But advising a member with questions to ignore them -- that's not official doctrine. Websites like FAIR and the Interpreter try to answer the questions and, in my experience, succeed about 90 percent of the time.
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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

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Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:19 pm
IHAQ wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:48 am

Church Leaders are telling young people to doubt their doubts, put things on the shelf as they will be resolved in the next life. Is that good advice?
I've been a member a long time and have never heard "put it on the shelf" as advice. My experience with bishops, stake presidents and the general authorities I know is that they don't have answers. Maybe there are some general authorities who have answers, but I've not encountered them.

But advising a member with questions to ignore them -- that's not official doctrine. Websites like FAIR and the Interpreter try to answer the questions and, in my experience, succeed about 90 percent of the time.
There are lots of things that are "not official doctrine" but are nonetheless taught explicitly or implicitly.

In my experience at church, it's been a very common response to hard questions to say something like: "We don't need to worry about that just now - it will all become clear in the eternities."
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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

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Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:19 pm
Websites like FAIR and the Interpreter try to answer the questions and, in my experience, succeed about 90 percent of the time.

Tell us about that 10% that you find fails (in trying) to meet your expectations ("my experience"). I'm sure that members of this board would love to hear you discourse on that. By all means. List them and briefly state your reasons. Let's hear about those things you have on your back burner. Go ahead and reveal those things that are on your shelf -- the weight, although only 10%, it's weight nonetheless.

:D
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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

Post by IHAQ »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:19 pm
IHAQ wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:48 am

Church Leaders are telling young people to doubt their doubts, put things on the shelf as they will be resolved in the next life. Is that good advice?
I've been a member a long time and have never heard "put it on the shelf" as advice. My experience with bishops, stake presidents and the general authorities I know is that they don't have answers. Maybe there are some general authorities who have answers, but I've not encountered them.

But advising a member with questions to ignore them -- that's not official doctrine. Websites like FAIR and the Interpreter try to answer the questions and, in my experience, succeed about 90 percent of the time.
Then you need to pay more attention.
Where did this shelf concept come from?

Camilla Eyring Kimball, wife to President Spencer W. Kimball is the first documented mention of a shelf to store gospel questions. She is quoted detailing the process in an Ensign article from 1975 (only a couple years into the Kimball presidency):

“I’ve always had an inquiring mind. I’m not satisfied just to accept things. I like to follow through and study things out. I learned early to put aside those gospel questions that I couldn’t answer. I had a shelf of things I didn’t understand, but as I’ve grown older and studied and prayed and thought about each problem, one by one I’ve been able to better understand them.”

She twinkles, “I still have some questions on that shelf, but I’ve come to understand so many other things in my life that I’m willing to bide my time for the rest of the answers.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t-learning
Ensign Magazine, October 1975, Camilla Kimball: Lady of Constant Learning By Lavina Fielding
https://wasmormon.org/the-Mormon-shelf- ... a-problem/
“We don’t control the timing of getting answers. Sometimes answers come quickly, and sometimes we must place questions on the shelf for a time and rely on our faith that has developed from the answers we do know”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/chu ... e?lang=eng
Elder Paul V. Johnson spoke to CES instructors during a CES broadcast on August 7, 2012.
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Hey, Bought, pick ur poison

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Which one bothers YOU the most? Tell us, we want to know. Pick one, just one will do.

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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

Post by Moksha »

I've wondered where the metaphor of putting items on a shelf and the shelf finally breaking came from.

Yahoo, you were aware of this concept, right? Wonder if any BYU professors have offered the suggestion to "doubt your cognitive dissonance?"
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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

Post by Rick Grunder »

Long before the specific shelf terminology was employed, Latter-day Saints were scolded into the practice of holding difficult questions - including crucial central theological points - in abeyance indefinitely. When my Utah grandfather was a teenager 125 years ago, here is what he could have heard from the pulpit in the Tabernacle. The speaker was the President of the Church, Wilford Woodruff . . .
Cease troubling yourselves about who God is; who Adam is, who Christ is,who Jehovah is. For heaven's sake, let these things alone. Why trouble yourselves about these things? . . . God is God. Christ is Christ. The Holy Ghost is the Holy Ghost. That should be enough for you and me to know. If we want to know any more, wait till we get where God is in person. I say this because we are troubled every little while with inquiries from Elders anxious to know who God is, who Christ is, and who Adam is. I say to the Elders of Israel,stop this. . . . We have had letter after letter from Elders abroad wanting to know concerning these things. Adam is the first man. He was placed in the Garden of Eden, and is our great progenitor. God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost, are the same yesterday, today, and forever, that should be sufficient for us to know. [Millennial Star 57 (June 6, 1895), 355-56; address delivered at General Conference April 7, 1895]
See the full passage in context at the link below. Notice there that Woodruff makes a point to remind his audience that he heard doctrines personally from Joseph Smith.

https://books.google.com/books?id=9NcRA ... 22&f=false
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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

Post by Shulem »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:19 pm
I've been a member a long time and have never heard "put it on the shelf" as advice. My experience with bishops, stake presidents and the general authorities I know is that they don't have answers. Maybe there are some general authorities who have answers, but I've not encountered them.
How about this:
ELDER NEIL L. ANDERSEN , General Conference, Oct 2010 wrote:I promise you, as you choose not to be offended or ashamed, you will feel His love and approval. You will know that you are becoming more like Him. Will we understand everything? Of course not. We will put some issues on the shelf to be understood at a later time. Will everything be fair? It will not. We will accept some things we cannot fix and forgive others when it hurts.
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Re: Putting things on the shelf, is unhealthy, doesn't work - says BYU Professor

Post by Ramus_Stein »

Rick Grunder wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:41 pm
The speaker was the President of the Church, Wilford Woodruff . . .
Cease troubling yourselves about who God is; who Adam is, who Christ is,who Jehovah is. For heaven's sake, let these things alone. Why trouble yourselves about these things? . . . God is God. Christ is Christ. The Holy Ghost is the Holy Ghost. That should be enough for you and me to know. If we want to know any more, wait till we get where God is in person. I say this because we are troubled every little while with inquiries from Elders anxious to know who God is, who Christ is, and who Adam is. I say to the Elders of Israel,stop this. . . . We have had letter after letter from Elders abroad wanting to know concerning these things. Adam is the first man. He was placed in the Garden of Eden, and is our great progenitor. God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost, are the same yesterday, today, and forever, that should be sufficient for us to know. [Millennial Star 57 (June 6, 1895), 355-56; address delivered at General Conference April 7, 1895]
See the full passage in context at the link below. Notice there that Woodruff makes a point to remind his audience that he heard doctrines personally from Joseph Smith.

https://books.google.com/books?id=9NcRA ... 22&f=false
That's a shame. Brigham Young made a mess of things. If Joseph Smith had spelled out his doctrines more clearly before he was killed, and Brigham Young had not decided to take this bizarre turn with Adam-God (a misreading of Joseph Smith's teachings), then Woodruff would not have had such trouble with these questions. OK, I understand what he is saying about not getting tied up in knots over it all, but it was some of these deeper teachings that made Mormonism special, wasn't it?
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