Do We Really Have It Right?

[canpakes]

I can't speak for others, but if I am with close friend #1, I am not entirely the same person I am with close friend #2. When together with both of them, I am not a complete manifestation of both me #1 and me #2 combined. There are small differences in who I am (or rather, who I present) when I am with my oldest sibling vs. my youngest sibling. I have a different face for different coworkers.
…

Yes.

When I was younger, I noticed this exact behavior in myself, and I considered it "good interpersonal skills." I thought I was communicating in a way more appealing to my audience.

As I age, however, I increasingly consider that inauthentic behavior. I want to be more myself more of the time.

Although, now that I just typed that, I'm questioning it. I wouldn't want to be "totally me" at work, for instance, for professional considerations...)

Yet again, I'm impressed with the importance of context.

Some part of that ‘different face’ presented to different peers can be part of aligning with that person’s different interests and perspective, to the extent where you can find common ground. You’re helping the other person communicate better back to you by doing so, and emphasizing what bonds the two of you. That’s not a bad thing.

[Res Ipsa]

It is this aspect of his posting habits that has led me to put him on ignore.

Res
pancakes
Doc Cam
Jersey
Liz
Chad

Anyone else have me on ignore?

That is some really really funny stuff.

Chap has no idea what I am referring to. Nope. None. Nothing. Nope. He has no clue. Huh?

You can take me off the list. I don’t keep anyone on ignore when I’m on the moderator list.

[Cultellus]

Everyone is welcome. Every opinion is welcome.* Therefore, do not "de-invite" anyone or suggest that they go elsewhere.

[Res Ipsa]

You can take me off the list. I don’t keep anyone on ignore when I’m on the moderator list.

Sorry man.

And you still owe me a lemur.

[ceeboo]

Hey X-Factor!

Sure we should do our best to treat each interaction as a fresh start and not make too many assumptions about the posters who we interact with but at the end of the day we are human. It is impossible for us to shake off those kinds of misses, especially when they begin to stack up over time.

Yeah - this, to me, sounds spot on.

In your example poster A and B missed the mark with one another for a myriad of reasons; posting motivating, communication style, timing, written language limitations. I think it is fair for them to wish for a different outcome or interaction but that is about as far as that goes. All they can do is continue to engage on the board in the way that brings them fulfillment and modify their own actions to try to create the space they are hoping to reside in.

The more I think about all of this, the more I am realizing how unbelievably complex all of this is. All of it! There are literally so many factors in play - there are so many potential motives - there are so many communication barriers - there are so many possible ways to "miss" that I am now wondering how we can't not miss.

So, someone tell me, what are the ingredients needed to not miss? Or at least increase the chances of not missing.

(Thanks for the post Xeno)

[Cultellus]

Gorilla

[Res Ipsa]

Thanks!!!!

[Xenophon]

Hey X-Factor!

That's new, has a slightly edgier ring to it than Xeno, I like it.

The more I think about all of this, the more I am realizing how unbelievably complex all of this is. All of it! There are literally so many factors in play - there are so many potential motives - there are so many communication barriers - there are so many possible ways to "miss" that I am now wondering how we can't not miss.

So, someone tell me, what are the ingredients needed to not miss? Or at least increase the chances of not missing.

Isn't step one always "admitting you have a problem" ? Seriously though, I do think realizing that the misses are easier to come by than not is a big step in the right direction. I think from there it is just focusing on your inbuilt assumptions about the person across the screen. Making sure that you are granting them benefit of the doubt, not reading everything they post in the worst light (a problem I think we suffer from here a bit more than we might like to admit, myself included), asking for clarification if your confused or if a post runs counter to how you general perceive a poster. It is also very helpful to look hard at your own posting. Are you sure you were as clear as you wanted to be? Can you frame your post or argument in a different way? What about what you put down could have caused a poster to react the way they did? Another one I catch myself on sometimes is the line of thinking where I set myself up as the main character. I have no special right to expect a conversation to go a way that I want it to and I need to be willing to let go and let everyone express themselves here in a manner that is fulfilling for them.

I think if you are earnestly examining your own thought process and trying to ask yourselves these kinds of questions it will help in the long run.

I'll also say that I think it is "okay" to have those misses. There is a ton of nuance and complexity to our interactions here and they aren't all going to go how you expect or want them to. Instead the focus, for me anyways, is on practicing the skill so that when you are engaged in a solid, good-faith dialogue with another human you can continue to make the most of it. Then we'll start over all again on a new topic.

(Thanks for the post Xeno)

No, thank you.

As always understand that I claim no special privilege to any answers. I'm just spit balling here and trying to be better along the way.

[ceeboo]

Hey X-Factor!

That's new, has a slightly edgier ring to it than Xeno, I like it.

I'm super stoked that you like it because I was going to continue calling you X-Factor even if you didn't.

The more I think about all of this, the more I am realizing how unbelievably complex all of this is. All of it! There are literally so many factors in play - there are so many potential motives - there are so many communication barriers - there are so many possible ways to "miss" that I am now wondering how we can't not miss.
So, someone tell me, what are the ingredients needed to not miss? Or at least increase the chances of not missing.

Isn't step one always "admitting you have a problem" ?

Ha! Sure is.

Seriously though, I do think realizing that the misses are easier to come by than not is a big step in the right direction. I think from there it is just focusing on your inbuilt assumptions about the person across the screen. Making sure that you are granting them benefit of the doubt, not reading everything they post in the worst light (a problem I think we suffer from here a bit more than we might like to admit, myself included), asking for clarification if your confused or if a post runs counter to how you general perceive a poster. It is also very helpful to look hard at your own posting. Are you sure you were as clear as you wanted to be? Can you frame your post or argument in a different way? What about what you put down could have caused a poster to react the way they did?

Good stuff! Like the middle of the Oreo kind of good stuff!

Another one I catch myself on sometimes is the line of thinking where I set myself up as the main character. I have no special right to expect a conversation to go a way that I want it to and I need to be willing to let go and let everyone express themselves here in a manner that is fulfilling for them.

While I understand your selfless comment, I, on the other hand, absolutely need to be the main character. It's the main reason I hang out here (pun intended) and it's a big reason why I am willing to put up with all of you nut jobs. (obviously kidding but felt I needed to type this to eliminate any fake motives that could have lingered and/or messed up the online persona I am trying to erect)

I think if you are earnestly examining your own thought process and trying to ask yourselves these kinds of questions it will help in the long run.

No question about it, in my opinion.

I'll also say that I think it is "okay" to have those misses. There is a ton of nuance and complexity to our interactions here and they aren't all going to go how you expect or want them to.

No doubt - and I would probably go a little further than your "it's okay to have those misses" and say we all can't avoid the misses and accept that they are coming to all of us (some more than others)

Instead the focus, for me anyways, is on practicing the skill so that when you are engaged in a solid, good-faith dialogue with another human you can continue to make the most of it. Then we'll start over all again on a new topic.

Sounds like a lot a blast! Where do I sign up?

Thanks for all the thoughts, X-Factor!

[honorentheos]

Hey ceebs,

Hey honor!

I came to the conclusion that discussion only really happens when both parties extend respect to the other. When I see people engaging with respect I generally expect both sides are seeking to explore the topic in good faith.

I think you're probably right - but I want to ask you to extend that line of thought a bit further down the track. With regards to extending respect, do you think this is more likely decided or given on an individual post by post basis, or more likely decided or given based on a collection of past interactions/posts?

More likely by whom?

I think it can be a choice to engage others with respect even if we often fail to make it an active one. After that, it's all based on biases so it's a little column a, a little column b, and probably not based on the discussion at hand in either case.

When one or both parties clearly lack respect for the other then it's usually clear the discussion is taking place as a kind of performance.

Bold mime.
I bolded this part because I think it's so spot on. Not only do I agree with you that it's a kind of performance, I also believe the performance has a specific audience in mind and I believe it has an intended message it wants to deliver. I can't offer an opinion on other discussions boards, as this is the only discussion board I participate on, but as far as this board goes, I think you can see these performances on the board pretty regularly.

So how would you answer the thread title question "Do we really have it right?"

I think it's best to realize we all see through a glass, darkly, in life as a general rule and online by default. That's been said often, and better, in the thread already I believe so I am not adding much here. That said, each discussion should be about the topic at hand, each thread a new deal and chance for any participant to contribute, and my best chance of building rather than being a wrecker comes from focusing on the topic as presented. Nothing good ever seems to come from dragging history around. This little zen quip comes to mind often when reading the board.

14. Muddy Road

Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unble to cross the intersection.

"Come on, girl," said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carriedher over the mud.

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he could no longer restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"

"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?

Not to say I avoid it entirely, and sometime the person becomes the topic to such an extent it's unavoidable...or shouldn't be avoided. But it's never the preferred path, in my opinion. Best to set it down at the earliest possibility and go on ones merry way being done with it.

Or something..And something, something, TED talk, something.