A big hello

[Shulem]

Lay off. I warn you. Lay off.

Or what?

Anyway. "You people?" Now where have I heard that one before...

- Doc

Yeah, It's a bit overbearing, I'd say. Warn us of what?

Ed came crashing on to the board and admonished me personally for mocking temple content down in the telestial board. But what about my rights to free speech and to warn the world about cult temple rites that the Mormons stole from the Masons, and are duping good people from all over the world into making covenants to sell one's soul at the altar.

Hey Ed, are you a current tithe payer? Do you have a temple recommend? Do you plan on having a recommend next year and the year after that?

None of my business? Oh, it's my business and everyone's business because you preach and defend Mormonism and the Mormon Church demands that everybody bow to their rules and pay tithing and go to the temple to make covenants. So, yeah, it's my business. Are you current?

[Kishkumen]

Yeah, It's a bit overbearing, I'd say. Warn us of what?

Ed came crashing on to the board and admonished me personally for mocking temple content down in the telestial board. But what about my rights to free speech and to warn the world about cult temple rites that the Mormons stole from the Masons, and are duping good people from all over the world into making covenants to sell one's soul at the altar.

Hey Ed, are you a current tithe payer? Do you have a temple recommend? Do you plan on having a recommend next year and the year after that?

None of my business? Oh, it's my business and everyone's business because you preach and defend Mormonism and the Mormon Church demands that everybody bow to their rules and pay tithing and go to the temple to make covenants. So, yeah, it's my business. Are you current?

Probably, first and foremost, warn you that you give everyone who does not know you and your story the impression that you are some kind of unhinged asshole. I would warn you of that, and I feel very protective of you as someone who has interacted with you in a friendly way for many years now.

I find your temple posts highly offensive and totally tasteless. Obviously I would not seek to infringe on your right to be as offensive and tasteless as you choose to be, but I also think it does hurt you--not in some kind of mystical way but in others' sense of what kind of person you are.

Oh, and I did try to report your Lady Gaga post, which was absolutely grotesque and tasteless. You should keep that garbage in Telestial. Somebody else, however, beat me to the punch.

[Shulem]

Isn't it wonderful that we have such a diversity of personalities on the board!!!

Oh boy, this place rocks! The possibilities are simply endless.

Thanks for your input, Kishy. I'm okay with you not liking my temple thread down in telestial. I have no problem with that nor your strong objections. I do plan to revamp the thread and take it to a whole new level! (One that maintains the rules, of course) I want to explore! Oh boy, it's going to be fun. The telestial board is for people who want to be there. There ARE people that enjoy that and get a lot of out of it. It's for people who appreciate that kind of content. It may seem tasteless to you but others find it full of flavor. Different strokes for different folks!

Wasn't the Lady Gaga pic PG-13? It was all in good fun, I thought.

[Kishkumen]

Isn't it wonderful that we have such a diversity of personalities on the board!!!

Oh boy, this place rocks! The possibilities are simply endless.

Thanks for your input, Kishy. I'm okay with you not liking my temple thread down in telestial. I have no problem with that nor your strong objections. I do plan to revamp the thread and take it to a whole new level! (One that maintains the rules, of course) I want to explore! Oh boy, it's going to be fun. The telestial board is for people who want to be there. There ARE people that enjoy that and get a lot of out of it. It's for people who appreciate that kind of content. It may seem tasteless to you but others find it full of flavor. Different strokes for different folks!

Wasn't the Lady Gaga pic PG-13? It was all in good fun, I thought.

Yeah, cool. We are fine with the fact that you have a right to be offensive and tasteless in Telestial. I object to you bringing it into Terrestrial. The Gaga image is offensive and misogynistic. I doubt Gaga approve of you posting it here, and it is the worst kind of juvenile distortion of a woman's anatomy.

For the record, I understand how this board works as much as you do, and I also understand what it means to have people think one is a terrible person. We are better off when we don't go out of our way to offend the sensibilities of others, even if we have the right to be as offensive as we like. I want the people with whom I deeply disagree to concede, at the end of the day, that I am a decent and reasonable person.

But, as you say, there is a diversity of personalities, and you are under no compulsion to temper your posts, so long as you do keep them in the right forum.

[Shulem]

Fine, Kishy. I'll go delete the pic of Lady Gaga.

I hope that satisfies you.

[Shulem]

One more thing, Kishy. I have to assume that you'll agree that former rites performed in the temple endowment were highly offensive and tasteless. You know what I speak of. Those rites were put upon a great many people without any warning of what was to come and many people who have gone to the temple (prior to 1990) were offended and horrified that they had to perform that kind of ritual before the temple altars.

The world has to know about. It's that simple. The world has to know!

Why? Because it's the same damn Church today that stands behind all of it.

[Kishkumen]

One more thing, Kishy. I have to assume that you'll agree that former rites performed in the temple endowment were highly offensive and tasteless. You know what I speak of. Those rites were put upon a great many people without any warning of what was to come and many people who have gone to the temple (prior to 1990) were offended and horrified that they had to perform that kind of ritual before the temple altars.

The world has to know about. It's that simple. The world has to know!

Why? Because it's the same damn Church today that stands behind all of it.

Actually, I don't agree with that at all. The mistake in all of that was in allowing people who were completely unprepared and uneducated about them to go through the rites. If you do not understand what the rites are about, then you find them totally offensive. They also did not age very well. It is difficult to take a 19th century symbolic system and hold onto it until the 21st century. I actually loved taking out my endowments and I loved going to the temple. I seek, as much for myself as for anyone else, to respect my past self who deeply valued the endowment, and, unlike many others, I have not profaned the temple left and right all over the place. I have not EVER revealed my new name.

So, yeah, I really don't like your profaning of the sacred rites of others. You probably would have found the Eleusinian Mysteries stupid and offensive, but that would have made your profanation of them no less offensive and barbaric, regardless of how you feel.

It is a fine and noble thing to respect what others hold sacred, even if you do not hold it sacred. Indeed, I believe it says an awful lot about a person if they manage to respect the sensibilities of others in that regard. I love you like a brother, Shulem, but I am completely at odds with you on this question.

[Shulem]

That's okay. We can be at odds on certain things. That is part of the diversity by which I mentioned earlier.

I am surprised, however, in learning your position on the matter you discussed above. I wouldn't have thought that. That was a surprise.

Having not revealed your new name, yet, is interesting indeed. Imagine how it will make you feel when/if you finally do. You see, you have yet to experience that and see how it really makes you feel to do it. There is another side of the coin to explore, my friend. Revealing can be just as thrilling as keeping a secret.

Do it.

[Dr Exiled]

One more thing, Kishy. I have to assume that you'll agree that former rites performed in the temple endowment were highly offensive and tasteless. You know what I speak of. Those rites were put upon a great many people without any warning of what was to come and many people who have gone to the temple (prior to 1990) were offended and horrified that they had to perform that kind of ritual before the temple altars.

The world has to know about. It's that simple. The world has to know!

Why? Because it's the same damn Church today that stands behind all of it.

Actually, I don't agree with that at all. The mistake in all of that was in allowing people who were completely unprepared and uneducated about them to go through the rites. If you do not understand what the rites are about, then you find them totally offensive. They also did not age very well. It is difficult to take a 19th century symbolic system and hold onto it until the 21st century. I actually loved taking out my endowments and I loved going to the temple. I seek, as much for myself as for anyone else, to respect my past self who deeply valued the endowment, and, unlike many others, I have not profaned the temple left and right all over the place. I have not EVER revealed my new name.

So, yeah, I really don't like your profaning of the sacred rites of another. You probably would have found the Eleusinian Mysteries stupid and offensive, but that would have made your profanation of them no less offensive and barbaric, regardless of how you feel.

It is a fine and noble thing to respect what others hold sacred, even if you do not hold them sacred. Indeed, I believe it says an awful lot about a person if they manage to respect the sensibilities of others in that regard. I love you like a brother, Shulem, but I am completely at odds with you on this question.

I respect your thoughts on the temple. However, I had a different experience than you did the first time, remarking to my mother that I feared we were in a cult after seeing the costumes and the prayer circle. It reminded me of the 2nd planet of the apes movie where the humans gather around the old atomic missile and worship it while in a circle.

I wasn't prepared but probably wouldn't have changed my mind had I been prepared. It is out there. There is this emotional group pressure that surrounds Mormonism due to its less than truthful claims. There is a reason for this as more would leave without it. There is a reason the temple and the costumes aren't discussed outside. More wouldn't go through if it were more widely discussed. The church loves the sunk cost fallacy and not telling kids what the temple is like or a mission or pretty much everything, hoping people will remain because human beings don't like to rock the boat in general.

Another creepy thing about the first experience was standing practically naked before an old man for the washing and annointing part. My friend who went with me stood behind, holding me in place because another kid in our ward had backed away prior to going through the ceremony. I understood why after the old man's shaky hand reached for my stomach area.

I think the whole thing is nonsense and sometimes putting nonsense in a grotesque light is helpful to break the emotional bonds the church is so adept at exploiting. So, I agree that Shulem should keep his thread down in the telestial but he serves a purpose and I get a kick out of it because it helped me see it for what it really is in my opinion.

[Shulem]

I think the whole thing is nonsense and sometimes putting nonsense in a grotesque light is helpful to break the emotional bonds the church is so adept at exploiting. So, I agree that Shulem should keep his thread down in the telestial but he serves a purpose and I get a kick out of it because it helped me see it for what it really is in my opinion.

I can appreciate that and thanks.

It's definitely been good therapy for me.