Election Litigation Status

[Res Ipsa]

The Arizona Supreme Court has dismissed the appeal in Kellie Ward's election contest. That's one state in the safe harbor.

Plaintiffs in the MI Kraken case have appeared the denial of their motion for emergency relief.

[honorentheos]

Well, yes. I suppose it's possible that Congress could violate its own clear law. But, hell, if that's what's going to happen, the country's done anyway.

Well, buckle in then. I'm in the probable column, not possible. It seems nearly inevitable that at least one House member and one Senator will agree to challenge one of the five states being targeted by the litigation. And probably all five will see challenges. The argument still seems likely to be that there were anomalies and issues not fully investigated so the process was flawed, and that Congress needs to protect the voters who voted legally. I could probably write the speech within a few words just from cobbling together the sound bites being used over the last month calling for support of the challenge.

[Res Ipsa]

Well, yes. I suppose it's possible that Congress could violate its own clear law. But, hell, if that's what's going to happen, the country's done anyway.

Well, buckle in then. I'm in the probable column, not possible. It seems nearly inevitable that at least one House member and one Senator will agree to challenge one of the five states being targeted by the litigation. And probably all five will see challenges. The argument still seems likely to be that there were anomalies and issues not fully investigated so the process was flawed, and that Congress needs to protect the voters who voted legally. I could probably write the speech within a few words just from cobbling together the sound bites being used over the last month calling for support of the challenge.

I would be genuinely surprised to see a written objection with two signatures submitted at the joint session. Both houses have to vote to reject, and the house is not going to vote to reject. Even if they reject, the total votes case decreases, so Biden still gets a majority. And how badly does the Republican Party want to be known from now on as the party that robs American citizens of their votes? It's the campaign issue that lasts forever.

It's different if a legislature votes to send a second set of electors. But then you have a bunch of Republicans who voted to rob the people of their own state of votes. You think that's an easy sell to a majority of state legislators? It's one thing to talk about all this, or send meaningless letters. It's another to actually rob your own constituents of their votes.

Trying to rob voters whose states came within the safe harbor would be even worse. Congress critters would actually have to openly break their own law to do that. There's absolutely no wiggle room in the safe harbor provision -- Congress legislated absolute deference to state-selected electors who meet the deadline. Should they actually try, there's an excellent chance a court would grant an injunction to declare the object illegal. And you can bet that the necessary complaints and motions will be ready to file on a moments notice.

I'm sure that there will be tons of posturing, bluster, sending meaningless letters, punditry, and handwringing for the next month. But I would be surprised to see a Senator sign an objection. And shocked if that objection were to a safe harbor state. Robbing people's votes is damn serious stuff -- the kind of stuff that leads people to exercise second amendment rights. And I really don't want to have to buy a gun.

[Jersey Girl]

I am so effing SICK of all of this. RI can't Congress do something about this besides Impeachment? What about the 25th? I have never seen anything like this in my entire LIFE. He is fabricating a crisis where no evidence exists for one and totally ignoring the real crisis which is COVID 19 for which we have evidence of 237K+ new cases today (as of this posting) and over 3K effing deaths.

People are frigging dying while he sits there pumping out non-stop conspiracy theories. Apparently also some question about order and delivery of vaccines. When is enough enough? Ever?

Ever?

p.s.If push comes to shove, good luck finding ammo.

[subgenius]

Well, buckle in then. I'm in the probable column, not possible. It seems nearly inevitable that at least one House member and one Senator will agree to challenge one of the five states being targeted by the litigation. And probably all five will see challenges. The argument still seems likely to be that there were anomalies and issues not fully investigated so the process was flawed, and that Congress needs to protect the voters who voted legally. I could probably write the speech within a few words just from cobbling together the sound bites being used over the last month calling for support of the challenge.

I would be genuinely surprised to see a written objection with two signatures submitted at the joint session. Both houses have to vote to reject, and the house is not going to vote to reject. Even if they reject, the total votes case decreases, so Biden still gets a majority. And how badly does the Republican Party want to be known from now on as the party that robs American citizens of their votes? It's the campaign issue that lasts forever.

It's different if a legislature votes to send a second set of electors. But then you have a bunch of Republicans who voted to rob the people of their own state of votes. You think that's an easy sell to a majority of state legislators? It's one thing to talk about all this, or send meaningless letters. It's another to actually rob your own constituents of their votes.

Trying to rob voters whose states came within the safe harbor would be even worse. Congress critters would actually have to openly break their own law to do that. There's absolutely no wiggle room in the safe harbor provision -- Congress legislated absolute deference to state-selected electors who meet the deadline. Should they actually try, there's an excellent chance a court would grant an injunction to declare the object illegal. And you can bet that the necessary complaints and motions will be ready to file on a moments notice.

I'm sure that there will be tons of posturing, bluster, sending meaningless letters, punditry, and handwringing for the next month. But I would be surprised to see a Senator sign an objection. And shocked if that objection were to a safe harbor state. Robbing people's votes is damn serious stuff -- the kind of stuff that leads people to exercise second amendment rights. And I really don't want to have to buy a gun.

You keep saying "rob votes" as if the result wouldn't be the exposure of fraudulent votes, ergo no votes were "robbed" but rather, the votes were rightfully possessed. Removing illegal ballots isn't robbing.

[subgenius]

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... 26261.html

[canpakes]

Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania GOP block of Biden victory ..

PA’s Supreme Court’s dismissal of the preceding lawsuit on Nov. 28 should be required reading for every Trump fan flirting with treasonous behavior in the name of supporting their snowflake sore loser candidate. Honestly considering and digesting the contents should invoke a deep sense of shame within those folks, but their pride will keep them from reading this doc, thus shielding themselves from having to question their own behavior.


Some excerpts:

“”Petitioners ask this Court to undertake one of the most dramatic, disruptive invocations of judicial power in the history of the Republic. No court has ever issued an order nullifying a governor’s certification of presidential election results. And for good reason: “Once the door is opened to judicial invalidation of presidential election results, it will be awfully hard to close that door again. . . . The loss of public trust in our constitutional order resulting from the exercise of this kind of judicial power would be incalculable.” Order, Wis. Voters All. v. Wis. Elections Comm’n, No. 2020AP1930-OA, at 3 (Wis. Dec. 4, 2020) (Hagedorn, J., concurring).

In seeking such unprecedented relief, Petitioners might be expected to present claims of the utmost constitutional gravity. Instead, the pair of claims they advance are fundamentally frivolous. Neither claim was pressed or passed upon below. Neither claim implicates a circuit split. Both claims are mired in procedural and jurisdictional defects that preclude this Court’s review. The first question—which seeks to raise Elections and Electors Clause challenges to Act 77—is not actually presented by this case. And the second question—which argues that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court violated the First and Fourteenth Amendments in its application of laches—asks this Court to constitutionalize huge swaths of state procedural law without any credible basis in constitutional principles or this Court’s precedents.

Even if Petitioners could surmount these obstacles, they would still need to justify the relief they seek. This first-of-its-kind injunction raises major constitutional questions. Yet Petitioners address none of them. They do not explain how a remedy
premised on massive disenfranchisement would accord with the Due Process Clause, which requires the counting of votes cast in reasonable reliance on existing election rules as implemented and described by state officials. Nor do they seek to square their position with the separation of powers, the Twelfth Amendment, or basic principles of federalism—all of which foreclose the injunctive relief that Petitioners seek here.

These failings also explain why equity stands as an insuperable obstacle to Petitioners’ application. “Democracy depends on counting all lawful votes promptly and finally, not setting them aside without weighty proof. The public must have confidence that our Government honors and respects their votes.” Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. v. Pennsylvania, No. 20-3371, 2020 WL 7012522, at *9 (3d Cir. Nov. 27, 2020). But Petitioners would throw all that to the wind. After waiting over a year to challenge Act 77, and engaging in procedural gamesmanship along the way, they come to this Court with unclean hands and ask it to disenfranchise an entire state. They make that request without any acknowledgment of the staggering upheaval, turmoil, and acrimony it would unleash. In issuing equitable relief, this Court rightly seeks to avoid inflaming social disorder. So to say that the public interest militates against Petitioners would be a grave understatement. Their suit is nothing less than an affront to constitutional democracy. It should meet a swift and decisive end..
...
Petitioners’ request is not only unprecedented; it is also unconstitutional. The relief they seek would violate the Due Process Clause, the separation of powers, and core federalism principles. For these reasons, Petitioners’ motion must be denied.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/ ... 0efile.pdf

[canpakes]

You keep saying "rob votes" as if the result wouldn't be the exposure of fraudulent votes, ergo no votes were "robbed" but rather, the votes were rightfully possessed. Removing illegal ballots isn't robbing.

Methinks you need to reread that post again.

1. If a State Legislature substitutes Trump-supporting electors for the existing electors, then the legal votes of the majority voting for Biden are indeed robbed. This isn’t removal of ‘illegal ballots’ as this process does not identify ‘illegal ballots’.

2. Team Trump lawsuits are not alleging voter fraud, nor are they presenting evidence of voter fraud. Therefore, there is no basis to discard all votes on the claim that some are alleged to be ‘illegal’ or ‘fraudulent’.

[Res Ipsa]

I am so effing SICK of all of this. RI can't Congress do something about this besides Impeachment? What about the 25th? I have never seen anything like this in my entire LIFE. He is fabricating a crisis where no evidence exists for one and totally ignoring the real crisis which is COVID 19 for which we have evidence of 237K+ new cases today (as of this posting) and over 3K effing deaths.

People are frigging dying while he sits there pumping out non-stop conspiracy theories. Apparently also some question about order and delivery of vaccines. When is enough enough? Ever?

Ever?

p.s.If push comes to shove, good luck finding ammo.

To invoke the 25th requires Pence and 1/2 of Trump's hand-picked cabinet heads to declare that he is incompetent. Then all Trump has to do is sigh a letter saying that he is competent. Then, he's President again, unless Pence and 1/2 the cabinet heads again sign a declaration that he is not. Then, it goes to Congress, where it takes a 2/3 majority of both houses to declare him incompetent. If those votes were there, impeachment would be faster.

There are 249 Republican members of Congress. Only 27 will acknowledge that Biden won. That's why the madness continues. The Republican Congressional leadership could stop the madness in a heartbeat. All they have to do is say that the people have spoken and Congress will recognize the certified results submitted by the states. Hell, McConnell by himself could do it. So your answer is that the congressional Republicans and only the congressional Republicans can stop the madness. You know who to call.

[honorentheos]

And I really don't want to have to buy a gun.

Heh. Thanks for the smile. I hope you're right. I don't think you are but this is definitely a time I won't feel bad about being wrong.