Fairmormon's T. I. T. S.

[Moksha]

by the way, is iPod Touch at MD&D Kwaku?

Calm has a thread on that board as a philosophical justification for apologists being nasty. iPod Touch, points out that neither Jesus nor the Apostle Paul were kind when they had butts to kick for righteousness sake.

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73 ... r-witness/

[Lem]

A moderator at r/latterdaysaints must work for fairmormon. Here's their explanation for turning off comments on their videos, am uh 'exaggeration' (i.e. lie) about positive feedback, and also a quite hilarious insistence that posters not "attack":

[–]YARGLE_IS_MY_DAD 24 points 1 day ago

Yeah. Humor has a place, but definitely not when discussing sensitive topics. Instead of relatable they appear insensitive and callous. On top of that the humor isn't even funny. It would be like your relative screaming BAZINGA at your mom's funeral.

[–]atari_guy -26 points 1 day ago

Did you read both the press release and the FAQ page? We don't expect everyone to like these, but we've been receiving some great feedback from people who do, some of which would never have read or watched our usual material.

[–]TenGigabit 32 points 1 day ago

Great feedback from whom? You disabled comments on all the videos after, what I saw, was horrible feedback.

Something I learned super quick when I was called into the young men's presidency several years ago, was that the harder I tried to be the cool, hip, "bro bro" leader, the less I was taken seriously and the youth didn't like me. As soon as I acted like an adult and treated them like (young) adults, they came around and I was able to build a great relationship with them.

While, yes, the videos have accurate information refuting the claims made in the Letter, the way this information is presented is very condescending and uncomfortable. If you wanted to make something that even faithful members cringe at watching, then, you've succeeded. If you wanted to make something that would make a youth who is questioning his/her faith even less prone to look for faithful answers to their questions, then, again, you've succeeded.

[–]atari_guy -23 points 1 day ago

The comments were being attacked by critics (people critical of the church in general, not sincere, faithful people that just didn't like the videos). We stopped that by turning them off. We created an e-mail address for people to send feedback to. That has still been flooded by critics, but we've also gotten some great feedback directly from people who have found the videos to be helpful.

[–]ryanmercer 18 points 20 hours ago

"The comments were being attacked by critics"

I was in most of those comment threads pointing out one of the hosts threw a giant party during covid lockdown, for profit, and regularly threatens individuals with his Twitter including instances where he has gone out of his way to shame women.

The videos are loud, annoying, counterproductive, and not remotely faith promoting. Just stop. You're not going to bring a single person to the Church with them.

Every thread about them in this sub is full of people saying they are complete garbage.

[–]atari_guy -9 points 18 hours ago

You don't like them. That's ok. Don't watch them. But cut out the ad hominem attacks. They're really not becoming.

[–]hjarnkirurg 20 points 15 hours ago

"But cut out the ad hominem attacks."

I believe FAIR’s preferred term for this is now “caricature.”

You'll notice the fairmormon guy has double digit negative ratings on his posts, on a faithful lds site!

[Lem]

Sorry to keep posting from reddit, but since it seems a moderator (Atari_guy) at r/latterdaysaints works for fairmormon, I think their comments are worth noting here. Here's more on why comments on videos were turned off:

[–]ryanmercer 15 points 21 hours ago

The videos are crap with a capital S. The comments and like/dislike count wouldn't be disabled if they were decent videos.

[–]atari_guy -4 points 18 hours ago

They wouldn't be disabled if they weren't being attacked by ex-Mormons who were posting garbage and intentionally trying to make the dislikes outnumber the likes. Apparently some people are afraid they might do some good.

[–]ryanmercer 20 points 17 hours ago

They're disabled for censorship. Period. Just like the subs you moderate, if it doesn't fit your very specific agenda, you delete it.

[–]atari_guy -2 points† 17 hours ago*

If you call not being willing to provide a playground for ex- Mormons (and others who act like them) censorship, so be it.

[–]Araucanos 14 points 15 hours ago*

If you’re removing comments for foul/hateful language then sure that’s censorship for reasons I think people can understand. Removing comments because of differing opinions is censorship because it goes against your ideas. Not good.

** Edit - It seems like my comment is being misinterpreted. I never claimed free speech. I agree that places need moderation to ensure it meets the expected curation requirements. My point was specifically with those YouTube videos and not allowing comments because they may be calling out dishonesty or other problems. The target audience (in my opinion) deserves to hear about those problems with the videos. Of course they have a right to disable comments, but that's not my argument. I'm disappointed that they may have done it because it was calling out those problems and not because of a huge influx of foul language, violent comments, etc. I never really read the comments so I can't even speak to what they contained. Admittedly, it's YouTube so....

Censorship because it calls out potential problems in the videos is bad censorship, in my opinion.

[–]kayejazz[M] 1 point† 15 hours ago*

I mean, we do that here, in this sub. That's part of what makes this sub function.

*It might be helpful to insert here some commentary about censorship and free speech. Everybody is guaranteed freedom of speech. It's a constitutional right, but there are limits on it. Freedom of speech doesn't give anyone the right to say whatever they want, wherever they want to say it. Just because a space is viewable or semi-open (like this reddit page, or the comments section of a youtube video) doesn't make it a free speech zone.

Just like you can't walk into someone's house and say whatever you want without repercussions, you can't expect that privately owned spaces like a subreddit or a youtube channel will not allow specific things. That's not a violation of your freedom of speech because the government isn't involved in the transaction in any way. You can appeal to the judicial system to argue about it, but it's highly likely that they wouldn't agree with you because privately owned spaces also have legal rights.

When people claim censorship here, or in other online communities, it's our right, as privately owned space, to create rules of conduct that allow our community to thrive.

[–]atari_guy 1 point 15 hours ago

Commenting on the Internet is not a fundamental right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaint ... _the_show/

Kayejazz is also a mod at this reddit.

[Lem]

Oh dear god. I was trying to find a quote for Shulem, and found this instead. From the (excuse me while I throw up) "Mo Wives, Mo Problems" video, brought to you by the lds-church supported and recognized FairMormon group, the idiot kwaku says:

If you want to have sex, you don't start a religion, you get an airbnb in Seattle.

[Moksha]

Here is a video calling the FAIRMormon on its errors point by point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSpThHZ ... e=emb_logo





Error: the correct acronym is TiTS, not TITS!!!

[IHAQ]

Here is a video calling the FAIRMormon on its errors point by point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSpThHZ ... e=emb_logo

Error: the correct acronym is TiTS, not TITS!!!

It's a good point by point assessment of a truly awful Fairmormon TiTS video.

There is some borderline racism within the Fairmormon TiTS video:
- The dodgy foreign accent mockery at the start
- The ridiculing of Russians to make a point about translation
- And the reference to not being Chinese

Aside from the casual racism, there are a lot of other problems in the Fairmormon TiTS video which the point by point narrator points out:
- It's dishonest
- It misdirects (which the Church defines as lying)
- It's flat out wrong on some things which shows Fairmormon don't even know their own subject
- It talks about translation errors as if Joseph translated in the traditional sense
- It contradicts content put out by Fairmormon (I'm not kidding)
- It says the CES Letter was written by Mickey Mouse

Fairmormon has jumped the shark. I would argue that Scott Gordon needs Church discipline over this.

[Lem]

More information from the fairmormon employee, 'atari_guy', same reddit thread as I linked to above:

[–]ryanmercer 16 points 22 hours ago

Notice they disabled the like/dislike count and comments on them... they know they are trash and yet they keep posting them.

[–]atari_guy -4 points 17 hours ago

If I got a bunch of people to downvote something you do, would that somehow magically turn it into trash?

[–]ryanmercer 16 points 17 hours ago

Votes have nothing to do with the videos being trash. They're trash because they are highly confrontational, not spirit-promoting, loud, obnoxious, distasteful, overly dramatic, and the end result is equivalent to walking up to thousands of hornet nests in your birthday suit and beating them with the biggest stick you can find.

[–]atari_guy -1 points 17 hours ago

Then you are guilty of a non sequitur.

https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaint ... w/gf6lbcz/

[–]atari_guy -14 points 17 hours ago

Whether or not the videos are mean is a matter of opinion, but there is no dishonesty in them.

[–]ImTheMarmotKingNon-believing Mormon 25 points 17 hours ago

You don't consider it dishonest to accuse Runnells of saying Joseph Smith used an actual ouija board to translate the Book of Mormon? You stand behind that claim, made in one of these videos?

[–]atari_guy -3 points† 1 day ago

We actually previewed a couple of the videos at our 2020 conference in August. We got mostly favorable reviews from the streaming audience.

[IHAQ]

How does Scott Gordon and the board of Fairmormon rationalise their TiTS videos against this counsel from Uchtdorf?

When it comes to hating, gossiping, ignoring, ridiculing, holding grudges, or wanting to cause harm, please apply the following:

Stop it!

It’s that simple.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... y?lang=eng

[Quirkie]

So you are saying that depleted soil benefits from organic fertilizer? Makes sense, and if nothing else, a bumper crop of tomatoes will spring from our youth.

*disclaimer: I'm short on time and am not going to spell check this. I fully susbscribe to Mark Twain's logic 'If you can only spell something one way, you are not creative enough' Please enjoy the creativity on display here.

yes, our kids are suseptible to the tactics these videos are dishing out. They appeal to a certain humor, and have lots of energy coupled with rightous indignation. Teens already feel this way: they are just looking for a fight....This creates a ready made fight for our little rebels looking for a cause. What better cause could there be than to enlist in the army of the Lord defending His sacred truth in these periouls latter days? (please note heavy sarcasim here)

The problem, which the youth wont see is how these half truths, circular reasoning and faulty logic just don't stand up. Lacking years of knowledge and experiance, most teens are unlikely to see these flaws. The church doesn't care though, they just want a few more years from these kids until htey are boxed in by missionary experiance and a temple marriage.

Leaving becomes a much more peroulous proposition after those milestones are achieved. It is hard to risk your family to leave the chruch.

[Lem]

So you are saying that depleted soil benefits from organic fertilizer? Makes sense, and if nothing else, a bumper crop of tomatoes will spring from our youth.

*disclaimer: I'm short on time and am not going to spell check this. I fully susbscribe to Mark Twain's logic 'If you can only spell something one way, you are not creative enough' Please enjoy the creativity on display here.

yes, our kids are suseptible to the tactics these videos are dishing out. They appeal to a certain humor, and have lots of energy coupled with rightous indignation. Teens already feel this way: they are just looking for a fight....This creates a ready made fight for our little rebels looking for a cause. What better cause could there be than to enlist in the army of the Lord defending His sacred truth in these periouls latter days? (please note heavy sarcasim here)

The problem, which the youth wont see is how these half truths, circular reasoning and faulty logic just don't stand up. Lacking years of knowledge and experiance, most teens are unlikely to see these flaws. The church doesn't care though, they just want a few more years from these kids until htey are boxed in by missionary experiance and a temple marriage.

Leaving becomes a much more peroulous proposition after those milestones are achieved. It is hard to risk your family to leave the chruch.

Susceptible is exactly the right word. Fairmormon has nothing to be proud of for engaging in a strategy that dishonestly preys upon the vulnerability of youth.