God The Monster - making sense of tragedy

[_CaliforniaKid]

I ran across a book today called Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light. Apparently, the problem of suffering caused Mother Teresa serious difficulties with her faith. I'm definitely ordering the book on Amazon. It looks fascinating.

[_barrelomonkeys]

At Auschwitz, Pope Invokes a 'Heartfelt Cry'


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00453.html

"To speak in this place of horror, in this place where unprecedented mass crimes were committed against God and man, is almost impossible -- and it is particularly difficult and troubling for a Christian, for a pope from Germany," he said in an address delivered in Italian.

"In a place like this, words fail. In the end, there can only be a dread silence -- a silence which is itself a heartfelt cry to God: Why, Lord, did you remain silent? How could you tolerate all this?"

[_It occurs to me . . .]

While these platitudes may bring comfort to some, I think they're often used more for those who are saying them, rather than to those who they are directed at. My sister's son and his good friend died in a tragic accident months before he would be leaving on his mission. Many people told my sister that he "must have been called to a mission in heaven" etc etc etc. I still remember my sweet faithful sister breaking down and saying "yes, but I needed him here also".

[_msnobody]

The result of sin is death. Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin. I don't recall God ever saying we wouldn't suffer. In fact, I think we are told in Scripture that we will suffer.

As an aside, I just became a CTR A. How old does that make me in Morg years?

[_barrelomonkeys]

The result of sin is death. Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin. I don't recall God ever saying we wouldn't suffer. In fact, I think we are told in Scripture that we will suffer.

I sure as hell hope no one ever says anything like that to me at a loved ones funeral.

I might just spazz out.

I don't need God to tell me, one way or the other, about suffering. It exists, I'm aware of it. But making excuses about suffering, and attributing it to some higher plan, quite frankly makes me bristle.

[_beastie]

Yes, I heard of that book, too, and want to read it.

I know that the problem of suffering is a philosophical debate, and that many believers can philosophically justify senseless suffering and the existence of God, but I can't help but think that any believer, if they were confronted with the type of massive, senseless, suffering that Mother Theresa dealt with regularly, would have a hard time retaining their faith. It's one thing to talk about the death of a young, upper-middle class somewhat privileged young man who, sadly, engaged in risky behavior, and it's quite another to talk about entire populations of people whose lives are destined to be brutish and short. The one thing I faulted Mother Theresa for was her continued opposition to abortion, and, If I recall correctly, even birth control. Didn't she see, first hand, what these babies' lives would be?

In fact, I would wonder if there would be something psychologically or emotionally "off" in a believer whose faith was not shaken if they were to be personally confronted with such human suffering.

While these platitudes may bring comfort to some, I think they're often used more for those who are saying them, rather than to those who they are directed at. My sister's son and his good friend died in a tragic accident months before he would be leaving on his mission. Many people told my sister that he "must have been called to a mission in heaven" etc etc etc. I still remember my sweet faithful sister breaking down and saying "yes, but I needed him here also".

Yes, I think you're right. I doubt these ideas cannot bring comfort to those most directly affected. Even if you truly, truly believe you will see your loved ones in some afterlife, you still know you have to go the rest of this life without ever seeing them again.

I'm sorry about your nephew. I don't know how people ever really recover from these senseless tragedies. Especially to bury a child - there's nothing more cruel in life than that.

[_beastie]

I sure as hell hope no one ever says anything like that to me at a loved ones funeral.

I might just spazz out.

I don't need God to tell me, one way or the other, about suffering. It exists, I'm aware of it. But making excuses about suffering, and attributing it to some higher plan, quite frankly makes me bristle.

My thoughts exactly.

Among many other things, it's dismissive.

It also makes God a monster, just as much as any of the other comments.

Maybe there really is a God, but the real test is whether or not human beings have the fortitude to reject him when he's presented as a monster.

It is an insult to God to believe in God. For on the one hand it is to suppose that he has perpetrated acts of incalculable cruelty. On the other hand, it is to suppose that he has perversely given his human creatures an instrument -- their intellect -- which must inevitably lead them, if they are dispassionate and honest, to deny his existence. It is tempting to conclude that if he exists, it is the atheists and agnostics that he loves best, among those with any pretensions to education. For they are the ones who have taken him most seriously. ~Galen Strawson

[_barrelomonkeys]

I love that quote beastie!

[_beastie]

I love that quote beastie!

Me too. I used it for my sig line for a long time on the old Z boards.

I have to admit, though, that I don't know the origination of the quote - was it from a book? An article? Another poster on the old Z board used it once, and I immediately became enamored of it.

It's probably from one of his books.

http://www.answers.com/topic/galen-strawson

Wait, it looks like it may have been from an interview:

http://www.enotes.com/famous-quotes/it- ... god-for-on

Attribution: Galen Strawson (b. 1952), British philosopher, literary critic. Quoted in Independent (London, June 24, 1990).

[_barrelomonkeys]

Thanks Beastie.

I wish we had more characters available for our signature line here.