Enduring to the End

[_Inconceivable]

"I never said it would be easy I only said it would be worth it".

You're right, Phaedrus, He didn't say that at all. And what is the real author refering to anyway? Keeping lots of commandments (that are intended to free us from pain, guilt and sorrow) or enduring life's difficulties that everyone deals with - disease, poor judgment, accidents, loss?

I am reminded of my mother's smile of pain that she has developed over years. This is her only happy expression. She has constantly reminded me that "we have to be sooo strong"

I would like to believe that it is not the destination (I really don't want a mansion), but the journey (but could use a more accurate road map). Unfortunately my mother has unwittingly decided that life is akin to a blind person walking through a mine field in a demilitarized zone - and the church is her faithful guide dog.

Is the glass half empty?

[_asbestosman]

I remember hearing talks about how we need to enjoy the train ride instead of always looking at the end. It might have been President Monson, but I'm not sure.

I think enduring to the end has more to do with perserverance than drudgery. A student needs to endure to the end of the semester to get the most out of class, and to the end of the degree's requirements to get the most out of his or her education. I think the earth life is more a chance to learn and to become what you want to be.

[_Doctor Steuss]

Hang on a sec. Is <deleted> an insult on this board? I post elsewhere and <cancel> is a regular insult insinuating that you can't say anything nice.

There are a few clouds upon my innards today, and it brought about a post with some personal information (regarding my mental/chemical battles and the never-ending quest to survive just one more day) that after a few moments I had a twinge of cowardice and decided to remove.

It was in no way an insult, and I will try to be more careful to clarify why I am deleting (instead of just “[deleted]”) in the future. I’m sorry for the confusion.

[_guy sajer]

I don't have much criticism of the phrase. The fact is, life is a difficult proposition no matter who you are, and parts of it will need enduring (unless you decide to take the easy route and jump off a tall building).

Sure, everyone wants to enjoy life, but enjoying life consists of understanding that life can be hard to handle and accepting that fact, thereby transcending its difficulty and making your life a bit easier.

I agree with Schmo, for the most part. Where I disagree is that in the context of Mormonism, the phrase doesn't appear to apply in this way, but rather it appears to equate "enduring" with "resisting temptation" and living Mormon beliefs and standards to the end. It is not about finding purpose in life and coping in hard times but about making sure that your lips never touch beer in your lifetime or that your hands never wander on down to your groin area for the purpose of self pleasure.

It's about being obedient to the end, not about finding meaning in life in the midst of uncertainty, disappointment, chaos, tragedy, etc.

[_MishMagnet]

No worries, Dr. Stuess. That is why I asked outright if it was the same kind of thing over here. I'm sorry you are having an inwardly cloudy day.

I don't know, I still think the only things I endure are things I find unpleasant. I don't find life in general to be unpleasant and therefore don't equate it with 'endurance'. Just different reactions to the word, no doubt. I love going to school and learning. I'm taking a class right now just for my own personal betterment. Once again, not something I feel the need to 'endure' but rather something to be 'enjoyed'.

I endure shots, physicals, family reunions (I kid!), renewing my license, things like that.

[_moksha]

Endure what well, your yearly exam? Pap smears are to be endured, not life.

With life, much like a keyboard, you always have the option of pressing Alt-Ctrl-Delete.

[_James Muir]

Mormonmistress, a newer poster on the board, made this observation on another thread, and I thought it was worth bringing up as a topic of discussion:

What the heck is this 'enduring' business anyway. It makes life sound like a torture chamber. It shouldn't have to be endured! I personally take issue with that word being used in that way.

MM is a non-member, and as such, is hearing this term as an outsider.

Having grown up in the Church, and growing up hearing this phrase, to be honest, I hadn't really given it much thought.

I have lost count of how many talks I have heard regarding "enduring to the end".

I suppose that, from an outsider's point of view, it does give the connotation of life being something that has to be endured rather than enjoyed.

My interpretation of this phrase, however, had always been that when life does get difficult, and we face struggles, with God's help, we will have the strength to press through these struggles, thus, "enduring to the end".

In this context, it doesn't have the negativity that may otherwise be associated with it.

Thoughts, anyone?

To endure to the end mean more to abide in Christ to the end. To wit:

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye alove one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater alove hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The aservant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Reading this convicted me of great sin. I will go look into that. Peace.

[_James Muir]

Mormonmistress, a newer poster on the board, made this observation on another thread, and I thought it was worth bringing up as a topic of discussion:

What the heck is this 'enduring' business anyway. It makes life sound like a torture chamber. It shouldn't have to be endured! I personally take issue with that word being used in that way.

MM is a non-member, and as such, is hearing this term as an outsider.

Having grown up in the Church, and growing up hearing this phrase, to be honest, I hadn't really given it much thought.

I have lost count of how many talks I have heard regarding "enduring to the end".

I suppose that, from an outsider's point of view, it does give the connotation of life being something that has to be endured rather than enjoyed.

My interpretation of this phrase, however, had always been that when life does get difficult, and we face struggles, with God's help, we will have the strength to press through these struggles, thus, "enduring to the end".

In this context, it doesn't have the negativity that may otherwise be associated with it.

Thoughts, anyone?

To endure to the end mean more to abide in Christ to the end. To wit:

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye alove one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater alove hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The aservant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Reading this convicted me of great sin. I will go look into that. Peace.

[_karl61]

from the beginning of one of my favorite books: M. Scott Peck's "the road less traveled". Dr. Peck is a Psychiatrist: He has another great book "people of the lie" which I really liked too.

from the chapter: problems and pain.

"Life is difficult.
This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths* It is a great
truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it.
Once we truly know that life is difficult - once we truly understand
and accept it - then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is
accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.

Most do not fully see this truth that life is difficult. Instead
they moan more or less incessantly, noisily or subtly, about
the enormity of their problems, their burdens, and their difficulties
as if life were generally easy, as if life should be easy.
They voice their belief, noisily, or subtly, that their difficulties
represent a unique kind of afficltion that should not be and that
has somehow been especially visited upon them or else upon their families,
their tribe, their class, their nation, their race or even their species, and not
upon others. I know about this moaning because I have done my share.

Life is a series of problems. Do we want to moan about them or solve them. do we
want to teach our children to solve them.

Discipline is the basic set of tools we require to solve life's problems. Without discipline we can
solve nothing. With some discipline we can solve only some problems. With total discipline we can
solve all problems.

What makes life difficult is that the process of confronting and solving problems is a painful one. Problems,
depending on their nature, evoke in us frustration or grief or sadness or loneliness or guilt or regret or anger or fear or anxiety or anguish or despair. These are uncomfortable feelings, often very uncomfortable, often as painful as any kind of physical pain, sometimes equaling the very worst kind of physical pain. Indeed, it is because of the pain that events or conflicts engender in us all that we call them problems. And since life poses an endless series of problems, life is alway difficult and is full of pain as well as joy."


*The first of the "four Noble Truths" which Buddha taught
was "Life is Suffering"

[_keene]

Everyone's been talking a great deal about the 'meaning' of the phrase, but even if it's supposed to mean something good, I still take issue with it.

You can talk about meaning until your face turns blue, but that doesn't change the instant subconsious reaction to the word. When you say you must endure to the end, the subconsious will immediately start looking for something bad, so that it can produce the state of endurance. This can all happen so automatically that nearly everyone would miss it.

I prefer other phrases that are designed with the subconsious effect of overcoming, instead of enduring. One of my favorites comes from Richard Bandler:

"Someday you'll look back on this and laugh. Why wait?" When your problems look silly to your unconsious mind, they're much easier to "endure."