A question from class today...

[_Bond...James Bond]

Hi Bond--

I realize you stated that we were to suspend our versions of reality for a bit and avoid cop-out answers.

BUT.

This is a rhetorical trope, not a statement of fact, so I'm really not sure how to answer the question.

(And I'm not suggesting that Nietzsche was a closet theist.)

Most, but not all, of my exposure to Nietzschean thought comes via its a/theological application in Mark Taylor's work. Nietzsche was an incredibly insightful commentator on Christendom and his thought still resonates, for me at least, today.

But, Nietzsche is not, I don't think, saying the same thing here as Altizer's 'death of God' theology, for example (in which, at some points, he apparently wants us to take him quite literally).

I think the question may conflate what is true (per Nietzsche's critique) with what is real.

I guess I'm saying that I don't read Nietzsche's comment as a metaphysical pronouncement.

CKS

His line of thinking against the metaphysical world developed over quite a few different writings. He traced the continual separation of the "True" world (the metaphysical world) with the "Material" world (the transitory, world of shadows (to use the Allegory of the Cave language) through three main stages in Western Thought:

1) Plato/Ancient Greece-where the True World could be found by embracing reason and rationality during life

2) Christianity-where the True World is found after death (Heaven)

3) Kant/Hobbes/Rousseau (Enlightened Political Philosophers)-Where the True World and God's Nature can only be guessed at.

Nietzche's argument that "God is dead" was basically an argument that the continual search for "Truth" (through questioning of God's Nature) we undermine the whole truth, because the very process of searching for Truth leads to a cynical nature that would make people, if confronted with truth, would still question it....meaning that the very highest pursuit (for truth) undermines the highest Ideals (that a Ideal Truth exists.)

(I think I got my point out alright...well sorta)

[_Inconceivable]

I'd wonder if he's going to Heaven. :-)

I think that is an excellent question.

So where is He if He is dead?

Is there life after immortality?

[_Bond...James Bond]

To a lot of people, discovering (and believing) that God doesn't really exist would so shatter and warp the foundations of their lifelong view of reality that it would be incredibly life-altering, or at least mindset altering. It would be like getting to graduate school in Mathematics and the teacher takes you aside and tells you that you're being inducted into the secret world of advanced mathematics that the peons can't understand and know, and then tells you that 2 + 2 doesn't really equal 4. You'd just stand there blinking your eyes, trying to wrap your mind around that concept, and seeing your entire previous mathematical life swirling around before your eyes, like some kind of Twilight Zone thing.

This is probably true. The guy who said he would feel anxious based his argument on the idea that the Death of God would cause chaos because so many people's moral checks would be broken and that people would wonder around wildly trying to figure out what's next.

[_harmony]

So anyway: How would you feel upon hearing God is Dead?

This is true. God is dead. He died on the cross.

Next question?

[_moksha]

Nietzsche was a real killjoy. Even a hardened atheist should see that religion is a pleasant and reaffirming opiate and healing agent for us. Belief in a beneficent God, who urges us to do good, is worthwhile. The s****iness of human behavior would occur with or without religion, but something that advocates for good behavior does us all a favor.

[_ozemc]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that God is dead, but maybe that our constructs and version of Him are dying out.

I look to the stars for my version of who and what God is.

Maybe the universe itself is God, and He/She/It operates the way He/She/It is supposed to.

I don't know, I just can't get my mind around the idea that this is all some big accident. Whatever the reason for it all, there must be some reason, even if I can't begin to contemplate what that reason is.

Now the life after death thing is a different story. I happen to believe that there is life after death; I do believe in Christ, after all, but maybe that life is not what we imagine. Maybe it's some sort of transcendence into another dimension, or higher plane of existence. Maybe our minds become free to travel throughout the universe, unencumbered by our physical bodies.

(Can you tell I've been a science fiction fan my whole life?)

Anyway, as far as our various organized religions on this planet, I do think that many of them do try to grasp parts of the truth, but, in the end, it is all words written by man, for man.

[_The Nehor]

I look to the stars for my version of who and what God is.

This is what the stars tell me this week:

Aquarius January 20 - February 18

Whatever compassion or sympathy once motivated people to tolerate you will soon disappear.

[_ozemc]

I look to the stars for my version of who and what God is.

This is what the stars tell me this week:

Aquarius January 20 - February 18

Whatever compassion or sympathy once motivated people to tolerate you will soon disappear.

That's funny!

I guess I should qualify my post as saying I'm interested in astronomy, not astrology!

[_barrelomonkeys]

Couldn't resist. :)

First time I heard the phrase, "God is dead" was in a punk club in Washington D.C. when I was a young teen. Possibly about 14 years of age. The lead singer shrieked this into the crowd before the band started playing. I thought it was for shock value and was not disturbed by this at all. I didn't believe in God and yet understood that many people did.

I heard that phrase over and over again from militant anarchistic atheists for the next few years in a variety of venues. I didn't think much of it.

One night I was staring at a man (that would shortly become my first husband) as we discussed a variety of things and I asked him why so many people said that phrase and what they meant by it outside of the shock value. He rose from our bed and pulled Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra out of his old army surplus pack and tossed it on the bed. Told me to read it and consider what the author meant, what perhaps those that recited that phrase meant, and what meaning I could place upon the phrase.

So, I sat at work for the next few nights reading that book. Under black lights, with gyrations all about, I read that book that elevated me from where I found myself, torn away from those that asked me to come to them, and found joy and wonder in his words as they read as beauteous poetry to me. I read that book and wondered about the parallels that I saw in the individualism that I found in Ayn Rand's works (of which I was quite familiar). When I asked my husband questions he told me to read the book again. Then he tossed Heidegger at me next.

Later, after I was able to attend college, I took an existentialism course and read those words again. I learned what others thought of that term, and applied new vocabulary, and context to bring a greater understanding.

Yet, really, when I first read "God is dead" under black lights, with pulsating music, writhing bodies, and leering men all about me, I understood that I needn't God to make decisions in my life as to what is just, what ethics are required, and how one goes about living the fullest of life without fear of death.

[_The Nehor]

Couldn't resist. :)

First time I heard the phrase, "God is dead" was in a punk club in Washington D.C. when I was a young teen. Possibly about 14 years of age. The lead singer shrieked this into the crowd before the band started playing. I thought it was for shock value and was not disturbed by this at all. I didn't believe in God and yet understood that many people did.

I heard that phrase over and over again from militant anarchistic atheists for the next few years in a variety of venues. I didn't think much of it.

One night I was staring at a man (that would shortly become my first husband) as we discussed a variety of things and I asked him why so many people said that phrase and what they meant by it outside of the shock value. He rose from our bed and pulled Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra out of his old army surplus pack and tossed it on the bed. Told me to read it and consider what the author meant, what perhaps those that recited that phrase meant, and what meaning I could place upon the phrase.

So, I sat at work for the next few nights reading that book. Under black lights, with gyrations all about, I read that book that elevated me from where I found myself, torn away from those that asked me to come to them, and found joy and wonder in his words as they read as beauteous poetry to me. I read that book and wondered about the parallels that I saw in the individualism that I found in Ayn Rand's works (of which I was quite familiar). When I asked my husband questions he told me to read the book again. Then he tossed Heidegger at me next.

Later, after I was able to attend college, I took an existentialism course and read those words again. I learned what others thought of that term, and applied new vocabulary, and context to bring a greater understanding.

Yet, really, when I first read "God is dead" under black lights, with pulsating music, writhing bodies, and leering men all about me, I understood that I needn't God to make decisions in my life as to what is just, what ethics are required, and how one goes about living the fullest of life without fear of death.

Wow....I must say I don't do my best thinking when under black lights with pulsating music, surrounded by writhing bodies, and with men leering at me. Whatever works for you ;)