Which way did they go Joe?

[_Abinadi's Fire]

I think he incorporated much of his personal life into the story as well - I think Dan Vogel draws those comparisons, too.

One thing that leaps to mind is the similarities between Mormon and Joseph Smith Jr. in Mormon chapters 1 and 2.

But this has probably been talked about ad infinitum here.

[_BishopRic]

One of the most all-encompassing explanations of Joseph's Book of Mormon influences I've read is this from Tom Donofrio:

http://www.mormonstudies.com/

When I first read this, I was amazed at the striking similarities between early American leaders and the Book of Mormon "prophets" and their "sermons."

[_Abinadi's Fire]

One thing I've been thinking about lately is the baptism of Alma and Helam in Mosiah 18 and the relationship of that event to the conferral of the Aaronic Priesthood to Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith Jr. as described in D&C 13 and in Oliver Cowdery's account of the event.

[_charity]

Also remember that Thor knew where he was going, had a good idea where he was, could have been re-supplied at anytime and knew he could be rescued. Lehi and company didn't know any of that. '/quote]

Also, remember, Lehi and Nephi had the Lianhona and God guiding their journey.

Also the Kon-Tiki was a purposely built vessell that was designed for the ocean. The best ocean going vessels at the time of Lehi were not even close to it's construction.

More on the rest of your post later.

Again, this remark is based on your lack of knowledge of what the Book of Mormon says.

1 Ne. 18: 2, 22 Now I, Nephi, did not work the timbers after the manner which was learned by men, neither did I build the ship after the manner of men; but I did build it after the manner which the Lord had shown unto me; wherefore, it was not after the manner of men.

I think the Lord knew what kind of ship and how strong to build it for an long ocean voyage.

[_karl61]

They went south to the east coast of Africa - You can trace the DNA from a tribe there to Israel.

[_MishMagnet]

Off the subject but I've never fully understood nevemo's who research the church history in this way. I'm interested in Catholicism and will look up this or that but not to the point of disproving the religion or going on-line to debate with Catholics.

[_karl61]

I think there was a meeting between the pope and an LDS apostle and some bad names were shouted at each other. I could be wrong.

[_charity]

See the Mo arguemnet is "Can anyone else write a book like that?' And the answer is "Yes, it's called the Q'ran".

I won't comment on the quality of the theology between the two. There are others who can do that. Ask Kevin. He has a lot to say about Islam.

The history nature isn't comparable. It's apples and oranges. The Q'ran is non linear. The Book of Mormon is a complicated history for one people for about 1,000 years, with another history added in. The interweaving takes charts to follow. It certainly is not something a person could have memorized and recited each day for the 80 day period of translation. And it was also not read off pages, as many witnesses attest.

And despite your claims to the contrary, the issue keeps on coming up. It is not dead but actually quite robust and is far more a valid point where Joseph got his ideas then him seeing Moroni, Jesus or the Easter Bunny.

Very few people argue that Joseph Smith made it up by himself. There are only a couple who keep bringing up either Spaulding or Rigdon as the authors because the evidence is so slim. But, yes, it does crop up from time to time. But then there are simpletons who every once and while bring up the "adieu" argument, too.

Oh, yes, if you read both the Book of Mormon and the View of the Hebrews you would have known not to embarrass yourself like this.

I never said it was word for word.

Pretty weak for having to back down.

But as the supposed Hebrews in the Book of Mormon never followed dietary law or any other Hebrew Law that I can see it is interesting don't you think?

I don't know where you get what kind of laws the Lehites followed. One of the picky little complaints of one anti-Mormon website is that there isn't any talk about dietary laws at all in the Book of Mormon. But you anti-Mormons keep falling into the trap of the absence of evidence being the evidence of absence. Just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it wasn't there.

And then there is also the possibilty that some or all of the Mosaic law was changed for this group of people. I haven't heard that anyone else has suggested this, just me. But we believe in continuing revelation. Certainly the Lord was leading and guiding the Lehites. Their circumstances were very different from the land they left, who knows what the Lord could have changed for them.

Did you read what I wrote? I stated that as Joe Jr. was wrong about so much he really didn't have much in the way of sources, just a few smttering of a map here, a story or two there, the KJV of the Bible and he at least read "A view of the Hebrews" once.

And didn't you read what I wrote? It isn't just one thing off a map, or a story or two. The list is enormous of those "just a name off a map" or "a story or two" so that it gets to be really hard to maintain without access to a pretty phenomenol library.

Pray tell what "lucky guesses" from Joe Jr. are you going on about? The Book of Mormon is a story. Could you enlighten me, since I'm new and all according to you, and tell me what Joseph got right?

I will be glad to. But I have to leave now to go spend the evening in the temple, and won't be back until too late. Tomorrow I am hosting a luncheon, so I won't be able to get to respond to you until tomorrow evening or Thursday. I ask for you patientce.

[_charity]

I stayed up extra late, just for you.

Where Joseph Smith got it right. And this took about 20 minutes.

Book of Mormon: Nahom as a place for mourning, with the death of Ishmael
Bullseye: Real place named NHM, where the Book of Mormon says it would be, and it has a large burial ground associated with it. (NHM wasn’t on any maps Joseph could have seen.)

Book of Mormon: A valley with a stream that never quit, with fruit trees.
Byllseye: There really is such a place, exactly where the Book of Mormon says it should be.

Book of Mormon: Nephi finds metal to smelt for tools.
Bullseye: Yemeni government discovered iron ore in sufficient quantities to be mined in the right area.

Book of Mormon: A son of king Zedekiah survives. Named Mulek.
Bullseye: Lachish letters prove existence of Malkiyah, the “little king.”

Book of Mormon: Egyptian names Paachhi, Pahoran, Pacumeni.
Bullseye: Names confirmed. Not known in Joseph Smith’s time.

[_LCD2YOU]

Also remember that Thor knew where he was going, had a good idea where he was, could have been re-supplied at anytime and knew he could be rescued. Lehi and company didn't know any of that. '

Also, remember, Lehi and Nephi had the Lianhona and God guiding their journey.

Which is a belief.

I guess when all you got is belief and superstition go with what you got.

All you know the Easter bunny could have been leading them.

Also the Kon-Tiki was a purposely built vessell that was designed for the ocean. The best ocean going vessels at the time of Lehi were not even close to it's construction.

More on the rest of your post later.

Again, this remark is based on your lack of knowledge of what the Book of Mormon says.

Hey, I can make up stories too.

1 Ne. 18: 2, 22 Now I, Nephi, did not work the timbers after the manner which was learned by men, neither did I build the ship after the manner of men; but I did build it after the manner which the Lord had shown unto me; wherefore, it was not after the manner of men.

I think the Lord knew what kind of ship and how strong to build it for an long ocean voyage.

There's a term for you, "Eyes wide shut'.

Of course when Joseph created the Book of Mormon from his imagination he knew that he had issues with the ship. Those are all "ships" too, right? Be very careful how you answer that because I will promise you it will come back to haunt you.

The problem is that what you post from Ne. 18: 2, 22 describes nothing.

The "lord" could have Nephi build an airplane. Rockets would have been a good method too. Perhaps it was an airship.

Oh, I know of the Book of Mormon. But you do know that using the Book of Mormon to prove the Book of Mormon is "Circular Logic"? That is the same as saying "The Q'ran is true because it says it is"

Would you accept the Q'ran as evidence for Allah and His one True Prophet Mohammed? I don't think so.

So why don't you use something other than the Book of Mormon? I know, you can't!