The Ban has not been lifted....

[Guest]

Jason, I think maybe you put your comment in the middle of quotes of mine and dancer's, so I'm fixing it for you below.--the road to hana

p.s. Nevermind. I see by the time I posted this, you had fixed it.

Hi Kevin... :-)

Becoming a priest isn't a right, so I don't think this is an equal rights isssue. And most women don't care to be priests anyway. So it isn't exactly the same thing as with the negro situation.

What is the difference between banning someone because of skin color versus banning them because of body parts (or lack thereof... smile)?

I have a difficult time with the idea that anyone can ban others using the excuse, "well they don't want to do such and such anyway."

While obviously the lack of women priests in the Catholic church is much different since only a handful of men are priests, (not that it seems remotely Godly), in the LDS church virtually all males twelve years old and up have the priesthood and it is indeed banned from ALL women.

I personally don't think the priesthood is anything other than a way for men to have power, nevertheless, I'm surprised the media hasn't even mentioned it... maybe they do not know how it all works in the LDS church?

~dancer~

A lot of other Christian religions believe in the priesthood of all believers, so whether or not someone has the ordained priesthood, all men and women are considered to have priesthood. I believe this is also true in religions like Catholicism where only men are officially ordained. All faithful laypersons still hold the priesthood.

It's possible the media doesn't bother with it for two reasons. First, some religions (like Catholic) have kept ordained priesthood only for men, even though some Protestant denominations ordain women, so Mormonism wouldn't be a sole offender on that level, and second, those who come from a vantage point of lay priesthood of the faithful might think that Mormonism actually embraces that (which, on a certain level, it does).

So in other words they don't bring in up because they can't just beat the Mormon boy on this one. They have to bear a whole bunch of others too and that is on acceptable. Stick to the odd Mormon things so they can whip it up against Mitt.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Jason,

Why the hell should Romney discuss this? What has it got to do with his political race? Should Rudy discuss the fact that Catholics don't let woman or even married men hold the priesthood? Should Huckabee discuss the fact the the SBC believes a women should not pastor a church?

Write the prophet on this would ya?

Well, women's rights are sort of important in a modern world that advocates equality.

At least to some folks! ;-) *

And yeah, I would like to know how all candidates view the roles and rights of women!

~dancer~

* Just in case you didn't catch the wink, I am teasing you!

[_beastie]

So in other words they don't bring in up because they can't just beat the Mormon boy on this one. They have to bear a whole bunch of others too and that is on acceptable. Stick to the odd Mormon things so they can whip it up against Mitt.

Yeah, but I don't think it's to whip up on the Mormon boy, unless it's being instigated by the other campaigns. If it's just the media bringing it up, they're going to bring up anything to whip up on any of these candidates. That's what they do. But yes, I think they're not making a big issue of this because so many other religions and believers adhere to a similar policy - particularly among the EV right wing, who would likely approve of the ban.

[_asbestosman]

those who come from a vantage point of lay priesthood of the faithful might think that Mormonism actually embraces that (which, on a certain level, it does).

Indeed. I have heard there is stuff in the temple to suggest it. For actual priesthood, there are also stories about women annointing women before childbirth. I also heard that women used to be able to assist their husbands with blessings. Let us also not forget about the women who helped heal the six ox (didn't she actually annoint it?)

[_charity]

Yeah, but I don't think it's to whip up on the Mormon boy, unless it's being instigated by the other campaigns. If it's just the media bringing it up, they're going to bring up anything to whip up on any of these candidates. That's what they do. But yes, I think they're not making a big issue of this because so many other religions and believers adhere to a similar policy - particularly among the EV right wing, who would likely approve of the ban.

"Just the media." ???

From www.mediaresearch.org


How the Media Vote. Surveys of journalists’ self-reported voting habits show them backing the Democratic candidate in every presidential election since 1964, including landslide losers George McGovern, Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis. In 2004, a poll conducted by the University of Connecticut found journalists backed John Kerry over George W. Bush by a greater than two-to-one margin.

Journalists’ Political Views. Compared to their audiences, journalists are far more likely to say they are Democrats or liberals, and they espouse liberal positions on a wide variety of issues. A 2004 poll by the Pew Research Center for The People & The Press found five times more journalists described themselves as “liberal” as said they were “conservative.”

The myth of an objective media was blown away a long time ago.

For instance, Bob Packwood, Republican Senator from Oregon, was forced to resign under a relentless media campaign after a woman reported that he had "made sexual advances." Yet when a woman reported that Democrat Bill Clinton had raped her, you couldn't even find the story on the back page.

[_beastie]

Yes, we all know the media never probes dirt in the Democrats.

Charity, you live in your own bubble.

[_Trevor]

Charity, you live in your own bubble.

My own mother lives in one of those. It's called Fox News.

[_Jason Bourne]

Well, women's rights are sort of important in a modern world that advocates equality.

yes i agree!

At least to some folks! ;-) *

To me as well!

And yeah, I would like to know how all candidates view the roles and rights of women!

I agree but why tie in his religion on it? Ask him his view in in on the secular sense.

Just in case you didn't catch the wink, I am teasing you!

Yes I did

Sorry for sounding so exasperated about this. You know I love ya TD ;-)!!!! You are one of my fav's here. And you know I would give the LDS priesthood to women tomorrow if I could.

And I worry about it. My oldest is home for Christmas. Before she came home for Christmas she said she was frustrated with the role women seemed to be confined to in the LDS Church and wanted to talk about "Exactly what is my role as an LDS woman in the LDS Church?" But so far she has not wanted to discuss it with me. I asked her the other night if she wanted to talk but she did not and I perceived she would bring it up if she did. But what do I tell her? Read the proclamation on the family and sister Beck's talk you little rebel!!! Just kidding. But I think I want to tell her that there is the view that teh POF reflects but she can live her life on her own terms and still be LDS. But she will likely never hold the priesthood and be led my men in her religous life in most ways. She can be active LDS and have a career, not pump out kids and so on but she will be looked upon by many is odd, not in line with what a good little woman should be an so on. So she better keep the strong back bone that she already has.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Jason,

Sorry for sounding so exasperated about this. You know I love ya TD ;-)!!!! You are one of my fav's here. And you know I would give the LDS priesthood to women tomorrow if I could.

Yes, I know you would Jason! :-) You are a great man! You are one of my favs too!

I think your daughter represents many young women in the church... they have this desire to share their gifts, heal the world, be a full member of the world, use their talents in ways additional to cleaning and cooking.

My personal belief is that our world is somehow pleading for the unique contributions of women. The world has been sorely out of balance for six thousand years, and is kind of, calling forth the energy/essense of women. Almost like it is a requirement for a harmonious world, (sounding a touch mystical here.. smile).

I wanted to be a therapist since I was ten years old... over and over and over as a child and teenager, I heard from church leaders and YW leaders that this desire was of Satan; that my place was in the home having children and being a good LDS wife. I truly thought that my deep passion for helping people was somehow this huge evil temptation trying to lead me astray. It wasn't until I was much older that I realized that my ability as a therapist is a gift that needed sharing. I do not think there is a personal God but I do have the sense that we have gifts and abilities that can be used for healing; that somehow our unique talents can be beneficial to each other and our world.

The idea that women are solely for being a stay at home wife, having babies, and taking care of a home is so contrary to what I believe is healthy and holy. Certainly if a woman enjoys this role and feels it is the best way she can contribute to the world, this is great for her. Of COURSE. But there are other women who do not feel this is the best or only way she can contribute. These woman have a more difficult time fitting into the LDS female mold.

Good luck to you and your daughter. She is lucky to have a father that understands, (as did I). :-) Thankfully she will not feel pressure to conform, become a "Stepford Wife", or thwart her talents and abilities to please LDS leaders!

Peace to you Jason,

~dancer~

[_dartagnan]

What is the difference between banning someone because of skin color versus banning them because of body parts (or lack thereof... smile)?

I don't think it is viewed as a "ban," anymore than men are "banned" from becoming visiting teachers. Women have their place in the Church, and I don't think too many of them are resentful of it. I often heard Church talks that said men had to be given the priesthood just to be equal with the women. The idea here is that women are much more spiritual. My friend who baptized me told me this, and this type of thinking seemed to resonate with Mormons everywhere.

I have a difficult time with the idea that anyone can ban others using the excuse, "well they don't want to do such and such anyway."

It wasn't meant as an excuse. It is an axiom that needs to be observed before comparing it to the priesthood/negro situation.

I personally don't think the priesthood is anything other than a way for men to have power, nevertheless, I'm surprised the media hasn't even mentioned it... maybe they do not know how it all works in the LDS church?

I think more likely, they don't care. At least, not until you get Mormon women complaining about it. If they don't feel neglected, then who are we to feel neglect on their behalf?

Well, women's rights are sort of important in a modern world that advocates equality. At least to some folks! ;-) *

But this doesn't qualify as a right.

My own mother lives in one of those. It's called Fox News.

Ya know, I don't know what the stink is about Fox News. I kinda like it. I mean, at least they have the courage to put up proponents from both sides of an issue to have a live debate. I don't recall seeing anything like that on CNN. Bill O'Reiley for example, always starts out talking about a controversial topic, he gives his take on it, and then he presents one or two, sometimes three, people who disagree with him, and he asks them to tell him why he is wrong. I love that. He strikes me as a fairly reasonable fellow. I don't know what views he holds that drives people nuts.