End goal?

[_charity]

Dogmaster, as with most issues, there is no one answer that fits all.

Yes, there are those who want to destroy the Church. One person here has repeatedly said that is his goal. These people are anti-Mormons.

Yes, you will see anger and bitterness. It can be explained as Some Schmo and the style guy have described. They think they were deceived. And that makes them angry. I am sure this happens to some people. There is another explanation. There are individuals who are being deceived out of the Church and having to fight against knowing deep down that they should be staying. Trying to criticize the Church is the only way they can do this. These are the people that Elder Maxwell described as "they can leave the Church, but they can't leave the Church alone."

It is a complicated issue. However, there is one thing to remember. All things good come from God. All things evil come from Satan. Those who fight against the Church, for whatever reason they think or feel themselves, are being deceived.

[_Some Schmo]

Dogmaster, as with most issues, there is no one answer that fits all.

Yes, there are those who want to destroy the Church. One person here has repeatedly said that is his goal. These people are anti-Mormons.

Yes, you will see anger and bitterness. It can be explained as Some Schmo and the style guy have described. They think they were deceived. And that makes them angry. I am sure this happens to some people. There is another explanation. There are individuals who are being deceived out of the Church and having to fight against knowing deep down that they should be staying. Trying to criticize the Church is the only way they can do this. These are the people that Elder Maxwell described as "they can leave the Church, but they can't leave the Church alone."

It is a complicated issue. However, there is one thing to remember. All things good come from God. All things evil come from Satan. Those who fight against the Church, for whatever reason they think or feel themselves, are being deceived.

Yes, why trust in all that naughty, wicked, deceptive hard evidence and reason when you can easily put faith in the transient words and feelings of believers? Satan must be a scientist or something.

[_Runtu]

Dogmaster, as with most issues, there is no one answer that fits all.

Yes, there are those who want to destroy the Church. One person here has repeatedly said that is his goal. These people are anti-Mormons.

Yes, you will see anger and bitterness. It can be explained as Some Schmo and the style guy have described. They think they were deceived. And that makes them angry. I am sure this happens to some people. There is another explanation. There are individuals who are being deceived out of the Church and having to fight against knowing deep down that they should be staying. Trying to criticize the Church is the only way they can do this. These are the people that Elder Maxwell described as "they can leave the Church, but they can't leave the Church alone."

I used to be angry. It's quite obvious that the church is not what it says it is, and yet I spent most of my life sacrificing for a false religion. I'd say I'm over the anger for the most part. The only time I get angry these days is when people cross the line and make things personal. In such cases, I tend to back off instead of fighting back, which is why you probably won't see much of me on the other board for a while.

It is a complicated issue. However, there is one thing to remember. All things good come from God. All things evil come from Satan. Those who fight against the Church, for whatever reason they think or feel themselves, are being deceived.

Unless of course we're right, and you're wrong. ;)

[_Who Knows]

There is another explanation. There are individuals who are being deceived out of the Church and having to fight against knowing deep down that they should be staying. Trying to criticize the Church is the only way they can do this. These are the people that Elder Maxwell described as "they can leave the Church, but they can't leave the Church alone."

Can you give me a name of such a person? An example please?

[_Some Schmo]

It can be explained as Some Schmo and the style guy have described. They think they were deceived. And that makes them angry. I am sure this happens to some people.

By the way, I've never thought I was deceived. I've never believed the scam. I had a pretty good idea as a young adolescent that it was all rubbish.

Feeling deceived was never the source of my anger at the church. Knowing other people in my family were deceived is.

[_BishopRic]

I am a somewhat active member of the church. Someone gave a talk about Mormon message boards. Then this whole topic came up at BYU. It seems strange people are so angry. Why are people so angry?

It's interesting to hear that question anymore. I used to hear it all the time when I participated on RFM years ago, and I recognized the anger they were talking about. Today I view it differently. Anger is a common emotion when one feels duped. Right or wrong, many exmos feel betrayed and lied to, so it makes sense there is some anger.

But I've learned something else since transitioning out of the LDS culture...Mormons often don't feel comfortable expressing their anger. It is viewed as "contention is of the devil," and an angry person is seen as one who has lost the spirit. So I think it is a bit alarming for newbies on these discussion boards to observe raw emotion, while us "seasoned" board types see it as a natural step in healing from what we see as spiritual abuse.

And is there an end goal? Do people here want the church to shut down?

You'll find different answers to this question. My own answer is that it will take many years (if ever) for organized religion to go away, even if there comes concrete evidence that it is all bunk. Emotion Trump's logic, and religion (including Mormonism) has a stronghold on people's psyche, so it may take many generations for churches to go away. I think a more likely outcome is that they will change significantly. The destructive results and deaths caused by worlds religions claiming to be the one true church of God, and others must be destroyed, will be recognized and teachings altered out of necessity to survive in this shrinking world. I am hoping the doctrines will evolve to respect others' approaches to peace and happiness, so we can live with each other without the judgment so common today.

(sounds like a Miss America speach! Sorry!)

[_charity]

It is always interesting to me that two people who know the same things can come up with different interpretations. I have been involved in apologetics for several years. I know all the arguments agaisnt the Church. All the complaints against Church leaders. All the history issues. The Book of Abraham criticisms. Etc.

I am a faithful, temple attending LDS. I joined as an adult. It was only after 25 years in the Church that any of my parental family (I say this to distinguish the family I grew up in from the family born to me.) were members. And then it is two cousins I rarely see due to distance. I have a graduate degree from an institution not BYU. I taught college courses for years until I retired. The only time I lived in Utah was for a brief period when I was too little to remember it, and then at BYU for 3 years. I am telling you this so that you can see that I don't fit the profile that many anti-Mormons will say of faithful LDS. I was not indoctrinated into the Church as a child. I am not ignorant. I am reasonably intelligent. I don't live in Happy Valley. My activity in the Church is not because I am afraid my parents would have been heartbroken if I wasn't.

Runtu and others here say they have invesitgated the Chuch carefully and come up with the conclusion that most of the leaders were scoundrels, that Joseph Smith (and/or Sidney Rigdon and others) made it all up, that the truth claims of the Church are false. i have investigated the Church just as carefully, if not more so, and come up with the opposite conlcusions.

[_John Larsen]

I like to talk about Mormonism because it is a fascinating topic in and of itself. No one asks why some people are interested in model trains or the civil war, why should it be strange that people take an interest in this American religion?

[_BishopRic]

Dogmaster, as with most issues, there is no one answer that fits all.

Yes, there are those who want to destroy the Church. One person here has repeatedly said that is his goal. These people are anti-Mormons.

Yes, you will see anger and bitterness. It can be explained as Some Schmo and the style guy have described. They think they were deceived. And that makes them angry. I am sure this happens to some people. There is another explanation. There are individuals who are being deceived out of the Church and having to fight against knowing deep down that they should be staying. Trying to criticize the Church is the only way they can do this. These are the people that Elder Maxwell described as "they can leave the Church, but they can't leave the Church alone."

It is a complicated issue. However, there is one thing to remember. All things good come from God. All things evil come from Satan. Those who fight against the Church, for whatever reason they think or feel themselves, are being deceived.

Or maybe that was his only explanation (common arrogance from leaders) to explain why anybody would believe anything other than Joseph's Myth). It makes sense if you can't see outside the box, and those that work fulltime for any organization tend to be quite myopic about their life paradigm.

[_Blixa]

I like to talk about Mormonism because it is a fascinating topic in and of itself. No one asks why some people are interested in model trains or the civil war, why should it be strange that people take an interest in this American religion?

Hear, hear!