Chat w/deceiving online mishie tonight! Grab some popcorn!

[_Yoda]

If your husband was cheating on you and I knew about it, would you consider it cruel if I told you? There's little doubt about the amount of pain it would cause.

Much of the truth is painful. Do you avoid it for that reason?

Come on, Schmo. That's not a fair comparison. He's talking to some naïve 19 year old missionary who is doing what he has been told to do to make his parents proud. Did you serve a mission? If you did, then you understand how tough it is.

Going after some 19 year old missionary is not going to "further the cause" of bringing down Mormonism. At best, he's going to confuse the poor kid. At worst, the kid is going to be all the more fervent in his beliefs because he has "thwarted the enemy".

[_Sam Harris]

You're quite right, Liz.

Schmo, you're comparing Apples to Oranges. This kid, if he were to take what PP put before him to his leaders, would be shamed and probably shunned, if not disciplined for his queries. What has PP achieved?

[_Canucklehead]

If I hadn't been asked some difficult questions by investigators on my mission, I may not have begun the journey that led to my exit from the church.

Of course, the investigator on my mission was a sincere, non-deceitful version of the person B&L plays at online. :P

[_CaliforniaKid]

Boaz,

I must admit, I am amused.

-Chris

[_Sam Harris]

If I hadn't been asked some difficult questions by investigators on my mission, I may not have begun the journey that led to my exit from the church.

Of course, the investigator on my mission was a sincere, non-deceitful version of the person B&L plays at online. :P

Where did you take your doubts?

Sincerity is always nice...

[_Some Schmo]

Come on, Schmo. That's not a fair comparison. He's talking to some naïve 19 year old missionary who is doing what he has been told to do to make his parents proud. Did you serve a mission? If you did, then you understand how tough it is.

Nope, never served a mission. I've never believed the church was true. I remember thinking Joseph Smith lied when I was about 12.

I imagine it is tough to serve a mission considering how stacked the deck is against you.

But I don't see how it's an unfair comparison. Why, because he's young and naïve?

Going after some 19 year old missionary is not going to "further the cause" of bringing down Mormonism. At best, he's going to confuse the poor kid. At worst, the kid is going to be all the more fervent in his beliefs because he has "thwarted the enemy".

That may be true. I'm not saying the method is necessarily effective, but it's the thought that counts.

Schmo, you're comparing Apples to Oranges. This kid, if he were to take what PP put before him to his leaders, would be shamed and probably shunned, if not disciplined for his queries. What has PP achieved?

Well, who's to say he will bring it to his leaders? Maybe it's just a seed planted in his mind that can result in full-grown apostasy in a few years. Nothing wrong with that.

And if he did take it to his leaders and they did react as you describe, then he can observe in action how anti-intellectual and anti-informational the church leadership really is. That can't be too bad either.

The fact is, no matter how he finds out, his journey out of Mormonism will be painful if he decides to take it. Growing up is painful. They don't call 'em "growing pains" for nothing.

[_Sam Harris]

Schmo, I have folks all around me who are ruining their lives as we speak. I could go and tell them in the most crass way possible that they are doing so, or I could be a loving, gentle, and positive influence...that may take a long time to get through, but still one that does less damage.

I choose the latter.

B&L doesn't care about the people he comes across. Plain and simple. It isn't concern that drives him, it's a sick need for revenge against the institution that is THE CHURCH, and he's using CHURCH MEMBERS as a medium to get that revenge, not thinking about the emotional damage that he's doing. He's convincing himself that these people will be far more miserable spending a lifetime as a Mormon than they will be if they're not. He can't be sure of that.

[_Some Schmo]

Schmo, I have folks all around me who are ruining their lives as we speak. I could go and tell them in the most crass way possible that they are doing so, or I could be a loving, gentle, and positive influence...that may take a long time to get through, but still one that does less damage.

I choose the latter.

B&L doesn't care about the people he comes across. Plain and simple. It isn't concern that drives him, it's a sick need for revenge against the institution that is THE CHURCH, and he's using CHURCH MEMBERS as a medium to get that revenge, not thinking about the emotional damage that he's doing. He's convincing himself that these people will be far more miserable spending a lifetime as a Mormon than they will be if they're not. He can't be sure of that.

Well, you may be right about that.

I suppose it might come down to what you value more: efficiency or compassion. I respect your desire to be compassionate.

[_Sam Harris]

Got a cousin who's just plain dumb. On baby number three with babydaddy number three. First baby daddy is dead due to gang violence, second baby daddy is either strung out or in jail, third one makes excuses for not working...says he has a trick knee.

This woman apparently went to a pre-natal appointment on a suspended license in a car with expired tags...and thought she wasn't gonna get caught. It's hard not to get mad at her, but when I do talk to her, I try to stay calm and not make her think that I think she's an idiot...even if she is. The police officer who pulled her over told her that if her license isn't paid off ($3600) by March 20, she's going to jail. She just gave birth.

Her problem is kind of like the LDS problem, she's been indoctrinated by a system. She has a certain mentality that is hard to break, and can really only be broken painfully. But in the midst of that pain (causing her to grow up and be responsible), I feel there needs to be compassion, because if she is demeaned further in the midst of her need, her self-esteem might suffer, and I fear what might happen to her as a result.

I've come across too many people who have left the church and have been so wounded that they seem like they just can't recover. I don't even really think about my five years as a member anymore. And maybe it's because of the dynamics of how/when/where I was a member. I don't know. That no doubt has a lot to do with it, being a convert, not having LDS family, living east of the Zion curtain, etc.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

B&L, you sick man. That is too funny. LOL.