Mormon Replacement Rate

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Charity said:

it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony.

I agree with Charity on this. Why do you think that is? If something is so obviously true, even the one and only truth, why is it so hard? And do you think it is harder to maintain a testimony if you're a Mormon as opposed to say the Jehovah's Witnesses? They both have about the same resignation rates.

I also agree. However, I don't think it take ongoing effort to maintain a belief in things that are clearly true.

Excellent point. Why do we hear leaders say things like "How could this NOT be true?"...

[_Sethbag]

If they have that witness and join why do they leave? Because some people join for the wrong reasons. Because it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony, and some people lose theirs. Because some sin. Because some become offended. Because some can't leave the pride of the world. Lots of reasons. And none of them have anything to do with where a physical location of a Book of Mormon site is.

Lots of reasons = discovering the overwhelming evidence against various church claims

Actually, with admittedly no evidence for this, my gut feeling is that the majority of members who go inactive do so without having learned about Joseph Smith's secret wives, the Book of Abraham problems, evidence against the Book of Mormon, etc. It wouldn't surprise me that many of them come to believe the church "isn't true", but not necessarily for the same specific reasons as people like me and you.

[_Sethbag]

I totally agree about it not requiring work and effort to maintain a belief in things that really are true. I think the rationale from a TBM is that even though you know the truth, Satan is hard at work constantly trying to blind you to that truth, and Satan is constantly offering up to you alternate explanations of things to tempt you away from the truth, and it is in the resistance of these efforts by Satan that the hard work and effort are required.

Me, I think that's just bull****. I think it requires effort, and is hard, to maintain a testimony because until you're worldview is so completely and utterly Mormonized that you lose the ability to see anything through any other lenses than Mormon testimony goggles, you must impose on your mind a willing suspension of disbelief. And it is that which requires the work and the effort.

[_TAK]

Charity said:

it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony.

I agree with Charity on this. Why do you think that is? If something is so obviously true, even the one and only truth, why is it so hard? And do you think it is harder to maintain a testimony if you're a Mormon as opposed to say the Jehovah's Witnesses? They both have about the same resignation rates.

Apparently the confirmation of the Holy Spirit is the equivalent of a cup with a hole on the bottom that requires a constant filling of kool-aid to remain full.

[_asbestosman]

Yes, it doesn't appear to include birth/baptism at 8, as replacement rate. Given the high birth rate among Mormons, that probably still results in the LDS church growing, rather than shrinking.

Thanks, for the link, occurs to me - I'll check it out and see if he addresses birth rate somewhere.

I seem to recall hearing that LDS birth rates are approaching the national averages.

[_skippy the dead]

<snip>
Lots of reasons = discovering the overwhelming evidence against various church claims

Actually, with admittedly no evidence for this, my gut feeling is that the majority of members who go inactive do so without having learned about Joseph Smith's secret wives, the Book of Abraham problems, evidence against the Book of Mormon, etc. It wouldn't surprise me that many of them come to believe the church "isn't true", but not necessarily for the same specific reasons as people like me and you.

I can attest to this. My initial departure was based on deep philosophical differences I had with the church (notably how the church positions women, its treatment of blacks and other non-whites (the overwhelming bigotry of many of the church's past leaders is simply amazing), and its intolerance for other lifestyles, even of those who are not members, such as gays). After determining that I couldn't remain a member of such an organization in good conscience, I was free to explore the church's history, only then discovering polyandry, Book of Abraham issues, circumstances of the production of Book of Mormon, etc. And I find that those types of issues truly fascinate me. At the least, the questionable historical issues provide an interesting backdrop on the evolution of the religion.

[_antishock8]

I left because someone offended me.

[_skippy the dead]

I left because someone offended me.

You must have missed the memo - you left because you choose to be offended by somebody. *wink*

[_guy sajer]

If they have that witness and join why do they leave? Because some people join for the wrong reasons. Because it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony, and some people lose theirs. Because some sin. Because some become offended. Because some can't leave the pride of the world. Lots of reasons. And none of them have anything to do with where a physical location of a Book of Mormon site is.

Lots of reasons = discovering the overwhelming evidence against various church claims

Actually, with admittedly no evidence for this, my gut feeling is that the majority of members who go inactive do so without having learned about Joseph Smith's secret wives, the Book of Abraham problems, evidence against the Book of Mormon, etc. It wouldn't surprise me that many of them come to believe the church "isn't true", but not necessarily for the same specific reasons as people like me and you.

I agree. I tend to think that most 'in-actives' never really believed or attended (the large majority of "convert" baptisms), another large share simply find LDS worship boring and unfulfilling (which it is) or that it generally does not meet their spiritual or social needs.

A relatively small slice leave because they've learned that Joseph Smith was was a lying, philandering, manipulative, ego-maniac or that the Book of Mormon is nothing more than bad 19th century fiction, or that the Book of Abraham is a figment of Joseph Smith's fertile imagination, or because they've decided that a truly loving father would not give his daughters up to some old, horny geezer as his personal property.

A relatively small, but rapidly growing, slice.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

I left because someone offended me.

Me too.

Who, you might ask, offended me?

Where do I start?

Joseph Smith offended me, Brigham Young offended me, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, ......Spencer Kimball, Bruce McKonkie, Ezra Benson, Boyd Packard, Gordon Hinckley, Thomas Monson...


I could list many many more who have offended me.