From the Archives: The Burden of Being Gee

[_Dr. Shades]

I concur. Good essay, Mister Scratch!

I find it interesting that Professor Gee equates "criticism" with "whining."

[_Phaedrus Ut]

Gee has used the credentials argument a lot. In fact, he has even directed the same argument against some of his fellow Egyptologists, whom he thinks lack the necessary credentials to discuss Mormon issues. At the end of the day, what Gee is trying to do is to set himself (as one of the only Mormon Egyptologists who has studied this subject) up as the sole authority on all things Book of Abraham.

My own account of the Egyptian Test episode is here.

I've often heard of Stephen Thompson from Brown referred to as an LDS Egyptologist. Though from his Dialogue article a few years ago I'd say he's far from a believer in the Book of Abraham.

Phaedrus

[_TrashcanMan79]

I've often heard of Stephen Thompson from Brown referred to as an LDS Egyptologist. Though from his Dialogue article a few years ago I'd say he's far from a believer in the Book of Abraham.

Is it incorrect, then, to refer to him as LDS?

[_Chap]

Gee has used the credentials argument a lot. In fact, he has even directed the same argument against some of his fellow Egyptologists, whom he thinks lack the necessary credentials to discuss Mormon issues. At the end of the day, what Gee is trying to do is to set himself (as one of the only Mormon Egyptologists who has studied this subject) up as the sole authority on all things Book of Abraham.

My own account of the Egyptian Test episode is here.

I've often heard of Stephen Thompson from Brown referred to as an LDS Egyptologist. Though from his Dialogue article a few years ago I'd say he's far from a believer in the Book of Abraham.

Phaedrus

And what department is he in at Brown?

[_Phaedrus Ut]

I've often heard of Stephen Thompson from Brown referred to as an LDS Egyptologist. Though from his Dialogue article a few years ago I'd say he's far from a believer in the Book of Abraham.

Is it incorrect, then, to refer to him as LDS?

Well he's a BYU Graduate and was published in FARMS. I've heard no record of him being ex'd or resigning. In Stan Larson's book he referred to him as a LDS Egyptologist that rejects the Book of Abraham. I don't know where he sits on the other issues like the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. I can only guess.


Phaedrus

// you can read his article here. Dialogue: Spring 1995

[_Chap]

I've often heard of Stephen Thompson from Brown referred to as an LDS Egyptologist. Though from his Dialogue article a few years ago I'd say he's far from a believer in the Book of Abraham.

Is it incorrect, then, to refer to him as LDS?

Well he's a BYU Graduate and was published in FARMS. I've heard no record of him being ex'd or resigning. In Stan Larson's book he referred to him as a LDS Egyptologist that rejects the Book of Abraham. I don't know where he sits on the other issues like the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. I can only guess.


Phaedrus

// you can read his article here. Dialogue: Spring 1995

Here is the conclusion of his article. Strong stuff. Basically Joseph Smith doesn't understand the pictures, the story of Abraham is not one that could have come from the time of Abraham, the story of the attempted sacrifice of Abraham makes no sense in historical context, and Joseph Smith didn't know diddly-squat about Egyptian religion (I paraphrase).

Phew. A good job he doesn't work at BYU.

[_dartagnan]

About 5 years ago Thompson was visiting scholar at Brown University's dept of Egyptology. I assume he still is. I had an email exchange with him some years back and he explained his position to me.

He regrets that IRR posted what he said about Nibley, even though he stands by what he said. He asked Luke Wilson to remove it from the web because it was damaging to the Church, but he refused. Thompson is LDS. Apparently he has managed to adjust his faith to the fact that the Book of Abraham is not what it claims to be.

Currently he is teaching high school in Florida, but he remains in the scholarly circles at Brown. Apparently he shows up on occassion to teach classes or to give presentations. Or at least this is what I understood about 5 years ago.

It should be significant that the first real LDS egyptologist to study the Book of Abraham came away with the conclusion that it was false. The same holds true for Ed Ashment who isn't an egyptologist, but has done graduate work at the University of Chicago. His doctoral program came to a halt after learned to adjust his life without the Church in it.

Peterson and Hamblin has attacked him for being an "insurance salesman" as if he never had any expertise in anything relevant to the topic. Peterson also tried to imply Ashment had lied about being a doctoral candidate at the U of Chicago, simply because he had not obtained it after ten years.

Essentially the apologists attack him for not being an Egpytologist, although it is OK for the non-Egyptologist Hugh Nibley to opine all day long on the subject.

[/b]

[_Chap]

About 5 years ago Thompson was visiting scholar at Brown University's dept of Egyptology. I assume he still is. I had an email exchange with him some years back and he explained his position to me.

He regrets that IRR posted what he said about Nibley, even though he stands by what he said. He asked Luke Wilson to remove it from the web because it was damaging to the Church, but he refused. Thompson is LDS. Apparently he has managed to adjust his faith to the fact that the Book of Abraham is not what it claims to be.

Currently he is teaching high school in Florida, but he remains in the scholarly circles at Brown. Apparently he shows up on occassion to teach classes or to give presentations. Or at least this is what I understood about 5 years ago.

It should be significant that the first real LDS egyptologist to study the Book of Abraham came away with the conclusion that it was false. The same holds true for Ed Ashment who isn't an egyptologist, but has done graduate work at the University of Chicago. His doctoral program came to a halt after learned to adjust his life without the Church in it.

Peterson and Hamblin has attacked him for being an "insurance salesman" as if he never had any expertise in anything relevant to the topic. Peterson also tried to imply Ashment had lied about being a doctoral candidate at the U of Chicago, simply because he had not obtained it after ten years.

Essentially the apologists attack him for not being an Egpytologist, although it is OK for the non-Egyptologist Hugh Nibley to opine all day long on the subject.

[/b]

This is what Thompson said about Nibley, in the context of a discussion of Larson's 'By his own hand upon papyrus'

Well I'll tell you, he's far more accurate than anything Hugh Nibley ever wrote on the subject, okay. So if you're willing to read Nibley, you can read this guy and not worry about it. I mean, because Nibley is far, far more free with his treatment of primary and secondary sources than this guy ever would be.

And this on Larson, and Book of Abraham apologetics in general:

But as far as the general reliability of stuff goes that's written on the Book of Abraham he's right up there at the top. Nothing that's been written from an apologetic point of view comes close to it in accuracy. Because frankly, in my opinion, when you start doing apologetics you've got to twist the evidence. That what we have just doesn't support us. You've got to do something to it. You've got to manipulate it, you've got to move it, you've got to put quotes together from tops and bottoms of pages and stuff like that. So, that's my feeling on the book.

Excerpts from the talk and subsequent discussion are here:

http://www.irr.org/mit/thompson.html

[_dartagnan]

Here are some of the emails he sent me in the past. I posted these several years ago at FAIR, with his permission, but here they are again:


Kevin:
for what it's worth, I am not an "ex-Mormon." I attend church virtually every Sunday, and am currently serving as the chairman of the scout committee in my ward. How much I believe is another issue, and will leave it to my public writings and comments for you to determine (if you care).
Yours truly,
Steve Thompson Thu, 14 Nov 2002

Kevin:
There are many people who consider themselves good Christians who consider the Bible to be a work of fiction. That is a position not uncommon among liberal scholarship. Try reading John Shelby Spong, for example. While you may find the position untenable, others do not.

I regret none of my published remarks. As far as I am aware, I wrote the truth. Others may disagree, and they are certainly free to publish articles pointing out my errors. That's the way scholarship works. I will let the readers decide.
The only thing I regret is my comments about Larson's book at the Boston Sunstone. An audience member asked me about the book, and I gave an off the cuff opinion. It was intended to be a backhanded compliment, as I compared it with Nibley's stuff, which I consider to be worthless (mainly because too many of his footnotes do not say what he claims they do. Don't take my word for it; pick one of Nibley's works dealing with ancient studies and check every footnote carefully and see what you discover).

I was shocked when I found out that the IRR was including an excerpt from my comments in a letter they were sending to members along with a copy of the book. I wrote them and asked them to stop, and they refused. The only thing they agreed to do was quote my statement in its entirety, including my reservations about the book. At one point, they had my entire statement on their web site; I don't know if they still do. When the IRR asked me to participate in their BA documentary, I declined, as I have no interest in supporting the cause of fundamentalist Christianity, which in my opinion has no stronger leg to stand on than does traditional Mormonism.

Steve Thompson Mon, 18 Nov 2002

Kevin:
Yes, I'm still at this address. I haven't given much thought to the Book of Abraham in many years, so I don't know if I can be of much help. I'm sure much has been published on both sides of the issue of which I am unaware. I still haven't seen the BA DVD put out by the IRR. I just don't have the time for such things any more.
Steve Thompson Sat, 1 Jul 2006

It all depends on what is meant by a "lion couch scene." If apologists are insisting on a scene identical to fasc 1 on a Book of Breathings, then to my knowledge the Joseph Smith BB papyrus is unique. I asked this question of Jan Quagebeur before he died, and of his student Marc Coenen, who did a diss on the BB, and they had seen no image similar to facs 1 on a BB. If one is willing to consider a "lion couch scene" to be any instance in which a mummy is on a bier with lion's feet, then P.BM 9995 (what Budge and Nibley called the Kerasher text) has a two-register scene showing the funeral of the deceased, and one of the scenes shows the mummy on a "lion couch", being attended by Anubis, with Isis and Nephthys at the head and foot, and with a jar of ointment below the mummy.

Lanny Bell, currently at Brown Univ., formerly with the Oriental Institute, Univ. of Chicago, has recently written an article in which he makes an extensive study of "lion couch" scenes in view of offering a reconstruction of fasc. 1 based on comparative material. This article will appear in a festschrift for Leonard Lesko, soon I hope.
In my opinion, as expressed in my Dialogue article, fasc. 1 and 3 make perfect sense in the context of the funerary purpose of the Book of Breathings. I see no reason to postulate a "Jewish redactor."
for what it's worth
Steve Thompson Sat, 1 Jul 2006

[_dartagnan]

Stephen Thompson recently completed his doctorate in Egyptology at Brown University. He is, to our knowledge, the first Latter-day Saint to complete a Ph.D. in this field. His dissertation topic was "A Lexicographic and Iconographic Analysis of Anointing in Ancient Egypt."

Dr. Thompson has also been involved in other research on Egyptological topics, including a paper on "The Anointing of Officials in Ancient Egypt" and an article on "The Origin of the Pyramid Texts Found on Middle Kingdom Saqqara Coffins." He assisted in the completion of volumes four and five of A Dictionary of Late Egyptian, edited by Leonard and Barbara Lesko. During the summer he taught courses in Religious Education at BYU.

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/display ... ghts&id=15