Is Smith's polygamy the Achilles' heel of Mormonism?

[_RockHeaded]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

How do you know it's God-authorized?

When the Lord says it is. Amos 3:7

Doesn't say anything about Polygamy being authorized by God, this just looks like a catch all verse to me.

What you need to remember is the Bible tells us God loves everyone, if this is the case why would he expect woman to submit to polygamy? We know from what history has told us that these were really not happy woman.

I think your reading of history is selective.

And I could say the same for yours.

So does God want these woman to be unhappy and this is how he shows them he loves them? Polygamy makes no sense to me.

By your logic here, even monogamous marriage is not a good thing.

That would be why I am not married.

[_bcspace]

A better way to think of it is to note that God authorized it then, so what is His will now?

I don't dispute that the deity of the Old Testament does not act or speak as if he thinks polygamy is wrong. But is there anywhere where he says you have to do it?

No, not explicitly, but I think the Abraham case shows that such might have occured. But this is incorrect logic on your part as the Bible is not the only and complete word of God nor does it claim to be.

Surely the distinctive LDS doctrine taught by Joseph Smith (and by Brigham Young) is that polygamy is not only allowed, but obligatory - a commandment from their deity in order to be sure of the highest degree of exaltation.

I don't see any such command that makes plural marriage obligatory. I suppose if the Lord directly asked you to marry someone, that would apply to you alone.

Can you show an example of the Old Testament deity even showing signs of being interested in whether someone has one wife or several? I can't recall that off-hand.

Did you read 2 Samuel 12:7-11?

The stress on the importance, indeed necessity, of polygamy appears to me to be an innovation that began with Joseph Smith. Can you show otherwise?

Strawman. Perhaps not intentional on your part.

[_Scottie]

This is something I was thinking about the other day.

The common argument is that prophets are men first and prophets second. And that to expect them to be perfect is unjustified, because they are imperfect men.

Therefore, as the argument goes, Joseph Smith could have instituted polygamy as an imperfect man, but the church could still be true.

Now, the flip side of this is that Joseph Smith didn't just paint himself to be "another prophet". He was some kind of uber prophet. He will be sitting on the right hand of Christ, and we can't get into Heaven without his say-so. His post mortem self is already at a level of deity, far above any of the other prophets. So, yes, I say it is fair that we judge his actions more harshly than that of other prophets.

[_bcspace]

How do you know it's God-authorized?

When the Lord says it is. Amos 3:7

Doesn't say anything about Polygamy being authorized by God, this just looks like a catch all verse to me.

Doesn't need to. I already gave a verse set showing the Lord authorizing plural marriage (2 Samuel 7-11). You asked how do you know. My response is when the Lord tells you and such word will come through the prophet. Hence Amos 3:7

I think your reading of history is selective.

And I could say the same for yours.

Yet the proof is in the pudding. If you can provide some references where I can actually check the work myself, we can judge how true your statement is.

By your logic here, even monogamous marriage is not a good thing.

That would be why I am not married.

"By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."
Socrates (469 BC - 399 BC)

[_RockHeaded]

This is something I was thinking about the other day.

The common argument is that prophets are men first and prophets second. And that to expect them to be perfect is unjustified, because they are imperfect men.

Therefore, as the argument goes, Joseph Smith could have instituted polygamy as an imperfect man, but the church could still be true.

Now, the flip side of this is that Joseph Smith didn't just paint himself to be "another prophet". He was some kind of uber prophet. He will be sitting on the right hand of Christ, and we can't get into Heaven without his say-so. His post mortem self is already at a level of deity, far above any of the other prophets. So, yes, I say it is fair that we judge his actions more harshly than that of other prophets.

Since Joseph Smith was just a man, wasn't above sin, I don't see how he could have been exaulted into the 'Godhood' or whatever one wants to call it. Is there any quotes from Joseph Smith claiming this would happen? Or is this coming from the group that fled to Utah?

RockHeaded

[_bcspace]

Now, the flip side of this is that Joseph Smith didn't just paint himself to be "another prophet". He was some kind of uber prophet. He will be sitting on the right hand of Christ, and we can't get into Heaven without his say-so. His post mortem self is already at a level of deity, far above any of the other prophets.

One could say the same thing about all the saints.....

1 Corinthians 6:2
John 14:12

[_RockHeaded]

bcspace, this all seems contradictory because Jacob 2 say's this:

23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

[_bcspace]

bcspace, this all seems contradictory because Jacob 2 say's this:

You need to read all the way to verse 30.

[_Scottie]

Now, the flip side of this is that Joseph Smith didn't just paint himself to be "another prophet". He was some kind of uber prophet. He will be sitting on the right hand of Christ, and we can't get into Heaven without his say-so. His post mortem self is already at a level of deity, far above any of the other prophets.

One could say the same thing about all the saints.....

1 Corinthians 6:2
John 14:12

How so??

[_bcspace]

How so??

For starters, if the claim is that you can't get to heaven without Joseph Smith's permission, then you must admit that you can't get to heaven without any of the saints' permission according to the Bible