Are homophobes born that way?

[_GoodK]

Homophobe is now a useless word.

No it isn't. You probably don't like the word, for obvious reasons, but that says nothing about the utility of the word.

the guy who thinks gays should be tortured to death over a long period of time.

You mean the God of Abraham?

[_cksalmon]

Were you born this way? Indoctrinated? Did your aversion begin after you had children?

Perhaps they were not, in fact, born this way, but learned it, perhaps were indoctrinated with it, imbibed it via cultural stimuli, and eventually chose it for themselves.

Or, perhaps not. But, perhaps, on some level, it makes sense to argue that "homophobia" is a learned behavior, rather than an innate one?

I dunno.

[_Ray A]

Or, perhaps not. But, perhaps, on some level, it makes sense to argue that "homophobia" is a learned behavior, rather than an innate one?

I dunno.

And all those kids who play "Doctors and nurses", "Doctors and doctors", "Nurses and nurses".

Does a five year old ever want to cut off the penis of another five year old? Since Gaz maintains he was this way since the pre-mortal existence, I suppose it's possible in his case.

But like you, I dunno either.

[Guest]

I suspect that the term anti-Mormon, loosely applied, represents nothing more than an attempt to gain rhetorical advantage...

But your suspicion is wrong.

Anti meaneth "against." Mormon signifieth "of or pertaining to Mormonism."

Just as anti-cancer, anti-lock brakes, anti-abortion, anti-communist, anti-Semitic, anti-coagulant, anti-inflationary, antacid, anti-aircraft battery, antidote, and a host of similar words have clear and not-particularly-controversial meanings, so too doth anti-Mormon.

This is, to coin a phrase, not rocket science.

Can the term anti-Mormon be abused?

Sure. Any word can.

Is it intrinsically confusing or prejuducial?

No.

Homophobic, though, seems a bit different. First of all, etymologically, it begs an important question: Do people who might have reservations about gay marriage or even about the culture of San Francisco bathhouses actually fear homosexuals and/or homosexuality? If so, that needs to be demonstrated, rather than merely asserted or, even, enshrined in common wisdom by rhetorical fiat. Secondly, the existence of an illness to be called homophobia -- morphologically analogous to claustrophobia, agoraphobia, and the like -- has, to put it mildly, not been demonstrated. Yet, as shown by the material cited in the opening post, the sheer similarity of the word homophobia to other "phobias" seems an insuperable temptation -- to some, at least -- to consider the question (which has scarcely been seriously raised) as already closed. It is, in other words, a barrier to actual thought.

[_GoodK]

Was I born with an aversion to homosexuality? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I carried over that opinion from the pre-mortal world. I am sure we looked in horror at what went on before we came here in places like Sodom and Gommorah.

Interesting. Now, minus the mention of fairy tale places and "pre-mortal worlds", this is rather useful information. If Gaz is telling the truth, he is saying he was born as a homophobe - or a homonegative, or heterosexist, possessive of an intolerant personality disorder - or whatever other similar label makes him feel better about his homophobia.

I can't imagine a child being born with this sort of mindset without any outside influences. If Gaz was raised a Mormon - or other similarly intolerant religion - I would guess his parents helped foster his homophobia.

Also, for the third time now, Homophobia is a completely inappropriate term. It entail fear, of which I have none. What I have is a deep disgust. is there another root word that can be applied that means nauseating, stomach-turning, shocking, and appalling?

For the second time, Just because you don't like the term does not mean it is inappropriate.

You don't really think the term homophobia simply means that you are literally frightened by homosexuals, do you? Is that why you don't think you are a homophobe?

[_The Dude]

I also don't find the homophobia label to be very useful or accurate. I would prefer to call someone a bigot if that's what I mean.

Homophobia implies a reason for the bigotry (fear and/or mental illness) but usually we cannot be sure of those reasons. All we know is the bigotry exists.

[_Ray A]

I also don't find the homophobia label to be very useful or accurate. I would prefer to call someone a bigot if that's what I mean.

Homophobia implies a reason for the bigotry (fear and/or mental illness) but usually we cannot be sure of those reasons. All we know is the bigotry exists.

That's pretty much what some of the comments from Wiki recommend. The last paragraph "Combatting homophobia" lists consequences Card may not have thought about. If homosexuality was driven underground, the AIDS epidemic would have killed double what it already has.

[_GoodK]

[GoodKMasqueradingAsDaniel Peterson]

No -- this is GoodK masquerading as Daniel Peterson ;)

Anti meaneth "against." Mormon signifieth "of or pertaining to Mormonism."

Just as anti-cancer, anti-lock brakes, anti-abortion, anti-communist, anti-Semitic, anti-coagulant, anti-inflationary, antacid, anti-aircraft battery, antidote, and a host of similar words have clear and not-particularly-controversial meanings, so too doth anti-Mormon.

This sounds familiar

Homophobic, though, seems a bit different. First of all, etymologically, it begs an important question: Do people who might have reservations about gay marriage or even about the culture of San Francisco bathhouses actually fear homosexuals and/or homosexuality?

[/quote]

I disagree that the term only applies to an actual fear of homosexuals.

[_EAllusion]

The term homophobia evolved the way it did because of a common belief that people who held anti-gay attitudes were afraid of homosexuality and perhaps afraid of their own homosexual tendencies. It became a counter-insult that eventually expanded into simply referring to those bigoted towards gays. My personal guess is the fact that there isn't really an intuitive "ist" word has something to do with that word becoming the common parlance.

It turns out there is good social data to back this notion up. There is a correlation there. However, it would be egregiously wrong to think all anti-gay attitudes flow from fear of homosexuality or Haggardism or to imply that towards someone who expresses anti-gay attitudes. Fortunately, I do not think the term as it is now used strongly implies that. Moreover, I don't think most of the people protesting being labeled a "homophobe" would all of a sudden be Ok with a different term that meant, "One who is bigoted towards gays." It's not common for bigots to be Ok with being called a bigot. It's rare for a person making a racist comment to think their comment is racist and/or be Ok with being described as a racist.

Gazelam. You are a bigot. Seriously. You are. A rather disgraceful one at that. Agreed?

[_Daniel Peterson]

I disagree that the term only applies to an actual fear of homosexuals.

I cheerfully acknowledge that that isn't how it's used. But that's what it actually means. The fundamental disconnect between the term's meaning, on the one hand, and, on the other, its overwhelmingly typical use was precisely part of my point. No such fundamental disconnect occurs with reference to the term anti-Mormon, which, even when it's overbroadly applied, is still consistent with the fundamental meaning of "opposed to person(s) or thing(s) connected with Mormonism."