Moral failure of LDS Leadership in Iraq invasion by US.

[_The Nehor]

Regardless of your opinion of the war, this is one area that religious leaders should take a stand on, either for or against.

Why?

[_EAllusion]

1. This is itself a lie, and has been debunked now for years.

There's a large body of evidence demonstrating the Bush administration stovepiped shoddy intelligence arguments in order to justify a predetermined war effort. Whether or not that constitutes lying depends on how loose you view the term lie. There's more damning stuff out there, such as in the Downing Street Memos, but that case is more tenuous.

[_GoodK]

There's more damning stuff out there, such as in the Downing Street Memos, but that case is more tenuous.

A really good article about the Downing Street Memos:

http://www.slate.com/id/2120886

The memos do not show, for instance, that Bush simply invented the notion that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or that Saddam posed a threat to the region. In fact, the memos reveal quite clearly that the top leaders in the U.S. and British governments genuinely believed their claims.

[_GoodK]

Regardless of your opinion of the war, this is one area that religious leaders should take a stand on, either for or against.

Why?

Because a massive foreign conflict is a little more important than civil rights for homosexual couples?

[_The Nehor]

Because a massive foreign conflict is a little more important than civil rights for homosexual couples?

I wouldn't call the war massive. I'm also not sure it's more important.

[_GoodK]

I wouldn't call the war massive.

I would. Considering it is the most costly conflict since World War 2 and probably won't be ending anytime soon.

I'm also not sure it's more important.

With all due respect, your priorities are seriously askew if you really believe that.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what people expect President Monson to say about it. "Support/do not support the war, brothers and sisters." What good would that do?

[_The Nehor]

I wouldn't call the war massive.

I would. Considering it is the most costly conflict since World War 2 and probably won't be ending anytime soon.

I'm also not sure it's more important.

With all due respect, your priorities are seriously askew if you really believe that.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what people expect President Monson to say about it. "Support/do not support the war, brothers and sisters." What good would that do?

Then my priorities are seriously askew. I'm not sure which is more important.

I agree with your ending statement. If President Monson were to tell people to support the war we'd have faithful youth lining up to join the military and some would turn it into a holy war or crusade with a 'God Wills It' attitude that could lead to all manner of insanity. If he tells people to oppose it then we'll have an army of activists and objectors and will hurt the morale of all LDS in the service.

Unless President Monson has a revelation instructing him to declare these things to the people silence is probably best. If the truth is between the two extremes I've given I would still guess silence is the right course. I think President Hinckley's talk was moderate but I know pro-war people who took it as evidence that God was for the war.

[_GoodK]

Then my priorities are seriously askew. I'm not sure which is more important.

Ok. Can you think of any reasons why - excluding a belief in a Creator who cares about the type of sex human mammals are having - society should even care if homosexuals are getting married?

[_The Nehor]

Then my priorities are seriously askew. I'm not sure which is more important.

Ok. Can you think of any reasons why - excluding a belief in a Creator who cares about the type of sex human mammals are having - society should even care if homosexuals are getting married?

There is the historical precedent that sexually libertine societies (usually including lots of homosexual sex) don't last more then 2 or 3 generations though that's not the only problem. The family unit is incredibly weak when it's there at all. I actually still believe in the ideal family with both a male and female role model in charge is very important for a child's development.

It's hard for me to exclude God from the equation. I admit this. My ideal society is Zion. It's hard to build Zion without factoring in God.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Regardless of your opinion of the war, this is one area that religious leaders should take a stand on, either for or against.

Why?

Because in war, people are killed, communities are destroyed, and governments are replaced. Men and women's lives are sacrificed for the cause of the war. Is the cause just? It's a much bigger moral question than whether two people of the same gender can marry. To even compare the two issues is an insult to the military.

For a guy with a Porkins avatar you should understand. Porkins sacrificed himself for the cause of the rebellion. Was the cause just? Yes it was. And we know that because the religious leaders (the Jedi) took a stand.