BKP says Joseph Smith never convicted of a crime. True?

[_harmony]

harmony, I suppose you didn't read any of the sources. I see a trend developing.

Did you notice how I brought the information to the board, and provided a link for verification? Not the whole thing, but the pertinent part?

If you want me to see something, don't give me just a link. Post what you think is pertinent and provide a link for verification.

I'm not addressing whoever wrote what you're linking. I'm addressing this thread, these posters, and that includes you.

So... are you going to sit there spinning or are you going to show what you've got?

[_mms]

LoAP,

How about a brief summary of the argument. Is it your belief that Joseph Smith was never convicted of a crime? Do you think it is prudent to make this statement with the facts we know, or would it be more prudent to leave the possibility open and not make statements of certainty when the facts may not be certain? I ask this not knowing what all is included in yoru several links, but I assume they probably argue that it is an open question whether Joseph Smith was convicted, or maybe even go farther and argue he was not. How about you tell me?

Does anyone know what Richard Bushman has to say on the matter. I do not have his book handy.

mms

[_cinepro]

LoAP,

Does anyone know what Richard Bushman has to say on the matter. I do not have his book handy.

mms

In a fireside Q&A, someone asked Bushman what surprised him while writing RSR. He said one thing that was unexpected was the sheer amount of time Joseph spent dealing with legal matters. Dealing with warrants, law suits, and other innocuous legal nuisances occupied a greater portion of the Prophet's time than we might expect.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

mms asked "Ummm. Any apologetic response to this?" and I provided some links. Have at them. Apologies for the snide swipe, harmony. I do still suggest, however, reading the links I provided. I am not going to go through them today, or any time in the near future. I am currently working on other projects.

[_harmony]

mms asked "Ummm. Any apologetic response to this?" and I provided some links. Have at them. Apologies for the snide swipe, harmony. I do still suggest, however, reading the links I provided. I am not going to go through them today, or any time in the near future. I am currently working on other projects.

In other words, you aren't adding anything to the discussion. You just did a drive-by post in hopes that would shut everyone up.

Got it. Thanks.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

mms asked "Ummm. Any apologetic response to this?" and I provided some links. Have at them. Apologies for the snide swipe, harmony. I do still suggest, however, reading the links I provided. I am not going to go through them today, or any time in the near future. I am currently working on other projects.

In other words, you aren't adding anything to the discussion. You just did a drive-by post in hopes that would shut everyone up.

Got it. Thanks.

I answered one specific question mms asked; namely: "Any apologetic response to this?"

I recalled having read a few articles over a year ago, did a little digging, found the links, and posted them here to point him to the "apologetic responses" he was seeking. I provided three different authors from two different sources. If he'd like to look into them he is welcome, as are you. Again, apologies for the snark.

mms- one other thing, the Joseph Smith Papers project, from what I understand, is doing an entire volume on legal and business matters. From the JSPP site:

LEGAL & BUSINESS
Between these volumes and related web content, scholars will have access for the first time to all known surviving records from judicial proceedings in which Joseph Smith was involved as plaintiff, defendant, or material witness. Unlike most “legal papers” in other American documentary editions, these are not the records of a legal practice but records of the court cases involving a participant in the legal system. A case summary and legal clarifications will allow non-lawyers to follow sometimes complex proceedings. Together these documents will shed light in surprising ways on Joseph Smith’s activities, challenges, and decisions. Contractual and business documents (for example, those relating to the Kirtland Bank, land transactions, merchandising, and the steamboat Maid of Iowa) are included whether or not they are related to the court cases. Three volumes make up this series: New York/Ohio Cases, Missouri Cases, and Illinois Cases.

See here: http://josephsmithpapers.org/DocumentSe ... #LegalList

[_TAK]

Elder Packer stated this in GC this past weekend:

"During his life, Joseph Smith was summoned to court over 200 times on all kinds of trumped up charges. He was never convicted."

It’s a little more than disingenuous to talk about never being convicted when At least twice Jos Smith fled the jurisdictions of the matters - Ohio after the Bank scandals and Missouri on charges of murder, arson, theft, rebellion, and treason..

[_Mad Viking]

Elder Packer stated this in GC this past weekend:

"During his life, Joseph Smith was summoned to court over 200 times on all kinds of trumped up charges. He was never convicted."

It’s a little more than disingenuous to talk about never being convicted when At least twice Jos Smith fled the jurisdictions of the matters - Ohio after the Bank scandals and Missouri on charges of murder, arson, theft, rebellion, and treason..

Don't forget the last time he was arrested and the likelyhood of a conviction in that case.

[_harmony]

Don't forget the last time he was arrested and the likelyhood of a conviction in that case.

Which brings up a bit of a problem...

If Joseph had been convicted, the odds that the church would survive are small.

With Joseph dead, the church had an impetus that was impossible to put down (people are so willing to sacrifice themselves for a martyr they believe in).

So... does that mean the mob was doing God's will?

[_TAK]

Don't forget the last time he was arrested and the likelyhood of a conviction in that case.

Which brings up a bit of a problem...

If Joseph had been convicted, the odds that the church would survive are small.

With Joseph dead, the church had an impetus that was impossible to put down (people are so willing to sacrifice themselves for a martyr they believe in).

So... does that mean the mob was doing God's will?

If Joseph Smith was convicted I doubt that in and of itself would have ended the Church. Although they were still lying about polygamy being practiced and did not let out the truth until much later - so if that was made know - it might have have resulted in many more defections.